Inside a CEO’s Mind: Eric Farmer’s Winning Strategy

welcome to the know your ship podcast presented by ehub I’m your
host Frank Dolce when I was a senior so the summer before my senior year my
mom had not my sister number six so I was 17 she was zero and I have an older
sister and had already left for colge 17 years apart no she’s not my twin cuz
this is this is getting are by the way are we live we need to get back into
that hopefully recorded some of that cuz that was super I have a question to
follow up but but welcome back to know your ship podcast love it love the
name yes a genius marketing person who thinks outside of the box and is very
highly regarded in several Industries came up with that name cannot be named
no we can’t name him but it’s it’s a guy is very well-respected individual
fair enough like people look up to him I hear there’s a statue in order like
that’s coming out soon maybe to be replaced I know I’m right no I’m right
here you don’t have to talk about me like that we do have something in common
by the way I’m talking to Eric the farmand farmer the CEO of Wallaroo media
is that your nickname that would be the very first time anyone has ever said
that to me so no that is the first time very first do do you have a nickname
but I don’t hate that I think that’s pretty good you know why because it
connotates like work and effort get the job done attitude which you could
incorporate in your life I actually do love that analogy so I think you’re on
to something I yeah I I I’m pretty good with nicknames uh I can’t tell you
some of the nicknames for the people who are in the room with us right now
that might be inappropriate but hey thanks for being here I’m so glad to have
you here really looking forward to this thank you for having me I’ve known
you for pro a year or so a year we met at Sunday’s best yes remember that
great which is a great place chicken and waffles and you know then we went on
that trip in April yes and you know it was basically we fast forwarded like
20 years of of friendship I believe it’s funny how that happens in the Magic
Kingdom how that can happen how that occur I think we shared a turkey leg did
we not we shared more than a turkey leg that’s for another podcast yes well I
I was immediately like you’re a very engaging thoughtful interesting person
and so I I was immediately drawn you probably get that a lot people are just
immediately drawn to you well that’s a huge compliment so thank you but I
would I would reciprocate those exact feelings you know it’s when you you
leave someone’s presence and you’re just like uplifted you’re in a better
state of mind or better mood and you think I need more of that person in my
life that’s what it was like meeting you really yeah are you just making that
up no did they give you a script to say this that’s that may be the nicest
thing anyone’s everever said to me in the last several minutes nice yeah I’ll
take it thank you so is that is this something that is this a character trait
that you’ve always had like where did you grow up I grew up in Littleton
Colorado suburb of Denver yeah absolutely lovely place and how many kids in
your family I have seven six sisters so no brothers and we just found out
something interesting is that your youngest sibling a sister is 17 younger
years younger than you and that’s the gap between you and the next kid no no
no uh I’m the second she’s the seven I completely misunderstood that but it
was just you know weird for me being going into my senior year of high school
and my mom was still having kids and I have an older sister so and and she
had already left for her freshman year uh sorry she was going into her
sophomore year of college so she was like 19 years old the seven of us never
actually lived together really in the household well so in that scenario what
do you do you mind talking about your childhood like yeah happy let’s dive
deep let’s do was it happy or traumatic or both um super blessed um childhood
I would say you know as I get older and realize what people have been through
um I have very fond memories and just I’m very grateful for the household I
was you know born into and then raised in yeah so is that part of this like
your your personality traits your the the how engaging you are with people
and this it seems like you have a you know a significant Comfort level being
in kind of situations with with with groups of people is can you relate that
back to your childhood and things that you were taught growing up um I don’t
you know that’s interesting I don’t know if I’ve even ever thought of that
before because I I don’t I would say it probably doesn’t go back that far um
I I was definitely um someone in any situation I tried to be the Class Clown
the funny guy and you know if a joke hit and people laughed like it built my
confidence and it reassured me like I can keep doing this so with seven kids
in the house you got no attention and so you had to go out and create the
attention no if my sisters heard you say that they would flip because being
the only boy oh wait did you also just say that and I skipped right over it
yeah that’s a big deal seven kids and you had six sisters all sisters now
luckily I was the second oldest so the influence that they had on me was
minor To None I don’t know maybe not maybe people might say that because of
that scenario that your emotional intelligence is way higher than most men
because you were raised by six seven including your mom women who typically
have a higher emotional intelligence I hope so I hope that’s true do you
agree with that or no or were your sisters I mean I’ll say this you know um
difficult hard on everything that they say about women I mean I can confirm
if it’s right or wrong I witnessed it for 18 years growing up every instance
yeah um so actually um a cooworker of mine uh on our leadership team she she brings
that up a lot cuz she knows I came from a family of six sisters and she says
I think you are the way you are because you have six sisters in a in a in a
complimentary way yeah yeah well let’s we we’ll dig into that a little bit a
little bit more okay grow growing up in in that household and I I mean we we
know where you are today but I’m trying to figure out like what what are some
of the things that were influential in your childhood that put you on this
path I mean did you have any experiences that you can talk about or traumatic
events that happen that you would say well that was really meaningful that’s
part of the reason why I’m here today that’s loaded um just going to get
right down to it yeah I want people to know the farm hand on a different
level that’s gonna stick after this people are just gonna be saying the
farmand I hope so we can only hope um again I do I feel like I I lived a a
sheltered childhood very blessed I do not have any like crazy um trauma that
I can remember now my my personally um we had very like my sister almost died
when I was three maybe that count or well sorry I was eight she was three M
um from heart problems like you know obviously we went through difficult
things but I was also young enough to like not really know or feel the impact
of that if that makes sense MH um well I I don’t know I think that might be
telling as well because if I look at your personality traits today and we’ve
had some discussion about that but the the way that you managed that may be
telling about where you ended up and what you’re you know how you act today
in society like that’s a traumatic event your your three-year-old sisters
having heart issues you know it seems uncertain and the way that you’re
describing it to me is like you know it’s just one of those things it’s just
one of those things you go through as child I didn’t have a really traumatic
child childhood right it may I’m probably downplaying it because she was in
the hospital and my mom was 9 months pregnant with my next sister well of
course she was of course she was do you ever remember sorry to get off track
was there ever a time that you remember your mom not being pregnant yeah
before she surprised me before my senior year saying oh by the way we’re
having another one and it’s a girl okay but at that point I just like
actually I look back on that and I I you know I was a typical teenager and I
did not respond the right way I was kind of like entitled like how dare you
have another kid that’s how you act like it’s my prerogative or yeah I get to
be part of that decision yeah but I was 16 probably when she announced it
yeah that’s a tough age though 16 I mean how old are your kids oh 15 so okay
so you’re you’re right there like the teenage years uh I mean when I look
back on my teenage years I I think well yeah what I didn’t really do anything
and then my kids do teenage things and I recognize all this dumb stuff that I
did as it’s a tough it’s a very difficult time trying to figure out yes no
doubt trying to figure out who they are where they belong how they F but they
think they know everything at the same time it’s a very intriguing it’s it’s
cool that we get to go through that yeah so um yeah 15 12 11 and 8 nice ages
of my kids you done yes that’s it so to go back to other question though um I
I would say it didn’t really happen until my early 20s when I really um I
feel like gained a lot of confidence and and really came into like who I am
today OB I mean I’m very even different than that than that time I mean we’re
talking almost two decades to age myself um but I’ve had way I feel like way
more trauma happened in my adulthood than in my childhood really okay let’s
just talk about your the 20s that you’re talking about that seemed to be this
experience in your life that identified maybe who you were or what path you
were on who you’re going to become because I think you know especially for a
guy like you and your position CEO running a business uh that’s a there
there’s a you know there’s a personality trait that goes along with that
there’s lots of different but you know there’s some things that I think you
can find common in in CEOs so what was it about that 20year old where you
started to gain some confidence what were those experiences um yeah like high
school I was not the kid that was asking the girls out and you know dating a
bunch of girls and the girls didn’t want to go out with me but uh you know
then I left for college um obviously if if you’ve been away if you leave home
for college you get what I’m saying freshman year it’s like where are you eye
opening like I have to do everything on my own and it’s good and bad and I
left on LDS Mission you know Mormon Mission mhm I went to Mexico for 2 years
um that I think was huge in just being able to communicate with other people
um in a confident way look because you’re always just you know talking to
strangers um on the street whatever for two years straight and getting
rejected so often that you know you you’ve experienced that rejection and
coming home went back to college and I had a friend there she was uh a
counselor do you remember efy yes I don’t I don’t know what it’s called now
they’ve changed it I don’t know what it’s called either fsy maybe did you
just make that up yes um a church camp right for for teenagers to come and
she’s like you would be a great counselor at efy and I was like and she
started telling me about it and I had never thought to do this I didn’t even
go to efy as a teenager um just no interest right like during the summer
spend a week at a church camp no thanks um but I looked into it I applied and
part of the interview was like this interactive kind I don’t know like what
we’re doing now like they’re watching you interact interact and do improv um
and I got the job and I did that and that I I I feel like was life-changing
for me because for the I mean the kids that go to efy really look up to their
counselors or not but typically they hire the right people and um it was kind
of like the first like real leadership position I got to experience and I and
I you know I I was like kind of surprised like whoa all these kids admire me
and want to be like me and I had never felt like that before and and so it
changed something in my brain like okay like I I can be the leader or I can
be admired I have things to give to this world um that people um want MH and
so that really built my confidence honestly in a big way and um so I think it
that’s kind of some of that context yeah I think that’s fascinating so you go
away to school eye openening experience uh you start kind of you know putting
yourself out there a little bit go on a mission and I mean Mi missions can be
super difficult some people thrive I think lots of people thrive some people
don’t it doesn’t fit that well but it seemed like that you thrived in that
environment I mean it was freaking hard I got to Mexico in August yeah is it
warm is it warm there in August and I was had you know been learning Spanish
for two months but I was like what did you teach me because I don’t
understand anything oh yeah it’s so different right so this is a total
tangent I’ll do this to you sometimes don’t let me get too far off track okay
but I love Mexican food but I only really know American Mexican food I think
is traditional Mexican food where you were where were you by the way a city
called Tempo it’s on the Gulf of Mexico yeah okay so is the it a lot of
seafood yeah actually they are they call themselves I don’t know if they
really are the king capital of the oh sorry the crab capital of the world but
see no one outside of there knows that so we do now we do and so is okay is
the food like would you consider Mexican food different than what we consider
Mexican food in America uh yes but also a lot of the same very similar okay I
think that we’ve taken the best parts you mean like a large combination plate
exactly Okay so but and it’s come a long way in the last 20 years because a
lot of uh well a lot of Mexicans do live here now and have brought that with
them yes but uh you couldn’t find authentic Mexican street tacos I feel like
20 years ago in the United States like you can today everywhere yeah and
they’re pretty pretty close like it’s pretty accurate yeah it’s good okay so
so now you come back from your mission and now you get into this you have
this opportunity to be a counselor mhm and that so I’ve been in situations
I’m sure you’ve been in situations where you have a terrible counselor and
you don’t relate and it’s super difficult and then you never want to be
involved with that but you you had a different experience and maybe you took
it a different way um but but you felt that leadership role uh and the I’ll
I’ll say admiration I I don’t want to sound too crazy but the admiration of
the people you were working with and that was meaningful to you it was yeah
at that point and so I think you said that you felt like you had something to
offer and people wanted that like am I getting that getting that right well
to go back to what you said at the beginning it was like the first time in my
life where I experienced people gravitating to me gotta and that that can be
kind of addictive yeah right I mean it feels great yeah it feels good uh to
have that kind of response but I was also just like why kind of at that point
I think a lot of us still say that know I mean wouldn’t that be fair for sure
yeah why him why Eric I mean why me wow yeah I don’t think people really say
that okay let’s fast forward because I think that’s a pivotal experience and
now you’re you’re okay CEO walero media how long have you been in this
position little over two years okay so from that experience would you say
that that started your path did you think at that point well I want to lead
an organization or I think that’s where I will flourish is in a leadership
position in some Venture oh man it’s so such a interesting question because
you when you’re asked that in your you know career early on what do you where
do you want to be in five years or what do you see yourself doing what’s the
ultimate goal I hate that question let me so I’m just gonna scratch that one
because even today’s coming next because even today I’m like I don’t know
where I’m going to be in 5 years and I’m glad I don’t know um and I mean I
would ask myself yeah do I cuz I so I I went to school if we want to
backtrack a little bit sure my mom forced me to pick a major going into my
freshman year I had no idea what I wanted to do in fact when when people
asked me what do you want to be when you grew up my dad was a dentist I would
just say a dentist but I didn’t want to be a dentist and I didn’t know what I
wanted to do and I think honestly that’s just by default you were just so
tired of the question that you’re like yeah I just want to be a dentist I’m
just going to settle you know when I was about no offense to all the dentists
who may be listening well when I was about 12 he started taking every Friday
off so I was like Hey three-day weekends oh and then it became I want to be a
dentist I want to be a dentist so I don’t have to work and be a dentist right
yes okay but um I was like just flustered what should what major should I
pick I picked engineering out of the blue so my first semester at College
path to Dentistry is right through the engineering College exactly a dentist
is an engineer for the mouth oh I’m G to write that down if we can if we put
titles on the episodes can we put that I approve here’s Eric farmer the farm
Hound’s not going to stick he’s going to be the engineer for your mouth we
need context okay back on track here we go so I hated my classes I I got like
dieses my first my in in all my engineering classes basically wasted a
semester got back from my mission and changeed to biology cuz then now I’m on
track for Dentistry Dentistry yes because you have to take all these
prerequisites like um what are all those chemistry biology advanced
mathematics so that next year I again hated my classes and but I tried a lot
harder and I was studying but it was not fun and I had conversations with my
parents and I was like I’m just not enjoying this I don’t know if it’s the
right thing for me and I switched to advertising and Bam like overnight the
light I was in enoy school shining down on you yeah right and it’s not that
the classes were easier it was like I was enjoying the content but were the
classes easier yeah wasn’t organic chemistry so you didn’t have to bond bind
all those atoms together and things yeah yeah I can admit that um and and
from there you know it’s just like you’re figuring things out and uh so I got
my first job out of uh college there in Rexburg I was at BYU Idaho mhm and
and moved down here to Utah because my grand Grandparents were like hey do
you want to live in our basement for free and we were like yeah we I always
married had uh a one kid less than one sorry young wait you skipped over all
you went through all your college experience and you never said oh by the way
I got married and we had a kid while we were there so right after I switched
major well um after my first year as an efy counselor yeah um I did it two
years but I started dating my wife um like in between those two summers and
yeah we we did the whole quick dating and it was about a year so there was
some froming to early chemistry see what I did there I because you you didn’t
like chemistry but that chemistry I loved yeah and still do and still still
appreciate chemistry for sure and biology okay so you’re moving in with your
grandparents right well super poor out of college no money and we’re like
wait so no rent um and I honestly didn’t have a job but we moved down here um
you know faith in every footstep very good and uh got a job very quickly at
orange soda so everyone listening to this I’m sure there’s a handful that
worked at Orange Soda because that was like the fastest growing biggest early
digital marketing agency in Utah Oh I thought you were going to tell me it
was like the first Swig no but a lot of people wondered to be honest between
you and I could have been still baffles me not I don’t know it it started in
the right State just say that no it baffles me but I I get it it baffles you
and you get it me personally but I get you it baffles you but you still
purchase it I don’t oh my wife so conf okay got it okay um yeah so so where
are we at now you in Orange sod and then you know that just turned out like
it got a lot of uh great people and great marketers going and launched their
careers so shout out to orange soda nice um and from there I went on inhouse
I worked at 1 1800 contacts for almost four years there in Draper and but I
wasn’t actually working on- 1800 contacts I was working on a sister company
that they were starting up called glasses.com so basically they owned the
contacts industry now uh let’s go into uh glasses yeah and so I was like the
digital marketing manager there for a long time um you know and I’m asking
myself where what do I want to be do I want to be a CMO uh do is that am I
even capable of that you know mhm just never really knowing what my career
care path has in store for me um then I go to an agency 97th floor in here
here and that was a great opportunity because it went I went from being like
an individual contributor to uh man management so they asked me to build out
the paid team because they only did like SEO and content gotcha and ads has
always been my my background I started doing Google ads in like 2008 right
out of college wow so also um I did Skip ahead while I was at uh glasses.com
for two years I went to grad school up at the U got my MBA and I would say
that was those were two of the hardest years for me and my wife because we
had a kid three like a couple months before I started and it was uh night
classes so I was working fulltime was that like the professional NBA program
professional yeah yeah so working full-time in Draper we live in Pleasant
Grove and then I would drive all the way back farther up to the the U um from
like 6:00 to 10 two to three times a week and then get home 11:00 p.m. maybe
and then start all over at 7:00 a.m. you know getting off to work again cuz
this was like nothing was remote back here it was like no you’re office and
we so we had a kid right before I started my MBA um six months he’s six
months old we find out we’re pregnant we find out she’s pregnant and that was
kind of devastating at the time CU I uh so she so they’re 15 months apart but
basically going into my second year of NBA school we have another kid and so
I’m basically just leaving my wife at home all day with two very small
children and we’re never seeing each other in fact we would say to each other
I would you know before I left the house every day see you never like that
was just a joke that we would cry over um but man that really um I think
going through stuff like that is you look back and you’re just grateful for
it character building experience Man Iron is forged in the fire exactly that
was a fire so yeah that’s a fire so let me let me fast forward a little bit
because I think all of those experiences are critical to the position you’re
in today and how you manage your team today would that be accurate would that
be fair to say like you can draw on all of this experience you had let’s just
go back to your college Years and on through I mean the stuff that you just
described all of it so what are some of those like what are some of those
lessons what are some of the things that you can look at it’s your daily
activity or the activity with your with your team at waloo and what do you
draw on in difficult circumstances or just as a leader um well I need to
share one more experience before I answer that perfect because I got let go
from the from 97 floor after about almost three years of being there and it
was a a gut punch I wasn’t expecting it I was I but looking back maybe I
should have been expecting it um I was very happy that I loved it it was it’s
a great company um great culture and anyway so that that wrecked me uh I I I
couldn’t find employment for almost two months which you know I had four kids
at the time wow and our youngest was and your wife is not working at all
she’s not working me you know we made that decision or and she wanted to be
at home she’s worked since she on and off but um yeah you know we anyway uh
that was one of the most uh like defining things for me that I am so grateful
that happened being let go I just think back you know okay like if that never
happened maybe I’d still be there um I was a director of paid media that you
know um but man um oh you know getting let go and then figuring out what I
needed to do to make it meet um over the next two months was like that uh
what the fire refiners am I saying that right refiner fire yeah iron forged
in the fire I was it forged me and set me on and on the path that I am on
today you know I I’m only going to mention this because I know that you and I
share this love of stoic philosophy but isn’t this the story of Zeno and the
Shipwreck and he said I made a very prosperous Voyage when I Shipwrecked
because MH that traumatic experience then defined him but you would never
wish to be fired no you would never wish for the Shipwreck but that was a
defining moment in your career yeah great analogy I love it thank you for
bringing stoicism in this conversation I appr the capital S and so let’s go back
to your original question okay I think all these experiences one thing um I
guess a strength I would say of mine in leadership that just helps me in my
day-to-day is I care deeply for people and I feel like I can empathize with
many things that they’re going through I’ve either been there or someone very
close to me has been there and um honestly just I mean I’ve been on this
Earth for 40 years almost 41 years and uh that’s a strength of mine I feel
like I care deeply for people and and a lot of people don’t do that don’t
yeah unfortunately and and so it has helped me uh build trust in the team
that we have and and that’s kind of where it all started so I’ve been at
walero for three years they brought me on as VP just VP mhm just plain old
old VP of everything um the founders I had known one of the founders for a
long time he lives really close to me I coached his son in soccer and you
know we had always been talking about marketing and he had been trying to
pull me over for years and it just wasn’t a good fit um it finally worked out
they said hey well why don’t you come be VP we’re actually stepping away from
the dayto day we need a CEO and a new VP and um so so I took some risk you
know a drop in salary to to make that move um but I saw a lot of upside and
and things that money can’t buy yeah fulfillment and and meaning and purpose
in in your job in your you know okay what you’re doing let me ask you a
question about that fulfillment and meaning and purpose because I think um
you can talk to lots of people in what seem like very nice professions and
you know lots of times people don’t they may be successful in a way
financially maybe uh or they have a good title or something but aren’t
fulfilled aren’t happy mhm and it feels like you have maybe figured that out
you you’ve you’ve built that puzzle of finding fulfillment and and so I want
to know is the Fulfillment based on the career path so being at waloo media
and what you guys and we’ll let you talk about that a little too but what you
guys do at waloo or is it more aligned with or maybe combined with this
aptitude that you have for not managing but working with being part of a team
understanding people um both yeah there there’s something in both all of that
like you’re you you could have gone down the Dentistry path didn’t sound like
that millionaire working four days a week taking Fridays off you kidding me I
take Fridays off oh man I wish I wish I could get a Friday off wow I wish I
could get a weekend off dang they’re working you to the Bone right to the
Bone who’s your manager who’s your your supervisor let me talk to him well
you’ll have to talk to me but then I if I I say that half jokingly but then
I’m not kidding probably a dozen other people at the company would say no I
manage him I manage that guy yeah including paa yeah but in a good way right
yes and that’s why they stay here definitely PA’s the best she’s my favorite
fake manager just so you know she’s interviewing at woo well can I write a
letter for her I mean she’s fantastic you’re gonna love her she’s the best oh
I know purposes that is that is a joke I’ll say for legal purposes you Joker
hey let me ask you this I was going to say like you know what is the thing
that you do that makes you so successful but I think it’s all of this life
experience that you’ve described leading up to this that you’ve really
internalized and is Meaningful and I really like the part about how you
engage people and that’s an important part of your job because I think that’s
critically important relationships with people so and not you know not
necessarily climbing the corporate ladder or climbing on top of people but
really engaging and being being part of a team and even leading leading a
team and and I know a little bit something of something about you too so I’m
just going to lead you into this and you can talk about it because I know
that continuous continual Improvement and education is I would say critical
to you as you approach your work life it’s everything so how do you accomplish
that um okay so I need to just take a step back here and say I am not special
in any way you listen let me take a step back too and say you’re good enough
you’re smart enough and dog on it people like you I appreciate you you’re
welcome um I have not always been this way I all of my life experience has
led me to here and and yes I’ve taken the path of when you know life gives me
lemons or you know the trials and stuff like I’ve decided to rise from those
ashes and not be a victim okay so yes you kind of have two choices you can be
the Victor or the victim so decide in any situation and that I think has
taken me time I I used to have a victim mentality like I I’m just come out of
the womb wanting to be a Victor um this has taken time and everybody can get
here and further so you know they say when you hit 40 you’re over the hill
right is that what they say they still say that oh man I don’t know where the
heck I am then I’m like on the way downside maybe I’m starting to come back
up again no I’m so far down the hill let me finish let me finish my thought
because you’re not on the way down you there should never be a peak there’s
no peak in life when you’re 80 you’re still climbing that mountain some I’m
not 80 why are you say did you imp were you implying that I Was 80 I’m just
saying you were like when you’re 80 like you you’re still climbing at 45 not
to make not to make a joke of this but I I agree with you like I think that’s
absolutely the attitude people should have yes so that’s so I’m gonna um
bring up a book probably one of my favorite books that helped me with this
love I’m writing it down go ahead it’s called mindset by Carol oh D it’s
fantastic I agree 100% when I first read that and honestly that’s the thing
is I grew up uh my childhood was ’90s so internet was like just coming to be
it was chat rooms and email and other weird stuff and maybe Napster you know
and that’s where I spent my time downloading Green Day songs in Blink 182 and
it’s so funny how music defines eras right in the ’90s was a terrible music
era no sense I don’t know there’s some good stuff you know all those bands
are making a Resurgence because they probably they took a break and then they
lost all their money and they’re like we need to make money again that’s
probably true yeah and there’s a there’s a market for it surprisingly enough
oh yeah everything goes full circle yeah that’s true and now I forgot what I
was saying but something about the 90s the you were talking you said one of
your favorite books was mindset mindset yeah Carol dck and victim you were
going down this path of you used to be a victim and not a Victor I think it
often times of course I’ve had the victim mindset but I read that book and oh
what I was getting at is now nowadays it’s just information age you have
anything at your fingertips you can learn anything but not when I was growing
up yet we were on the verge of that and so learning what a growth mindset was
versus a fixed mindset that wasn’t taught to children but nowadays it is you
know because we live in this information age and parents are teaching their
kids really valuable lessons I think nowadays that um my parents just didn’t
have access to a lot of that information and man they did a really good job
for not having ac