How Listening, Not Genius, Built Albion Fit

Plan D was within that week it was we can’t count on other
people other businesses anymore. Like we don’t know if this a contract is
going to come next week and we’re we’re just living contract to contract and
they’re going to change prices on us and or they’re going to reject an order
because sales are low and and they’re going to find an excuse to cancel it.
So Dave had the idea we’re going to start our own clothing line and that’s
we’re going to only depend on ourselves and not depend on other people ever
again. Welcome to the Know Your Ship podcast presented by EHUB. I’m your
host, Frank Dolce. Welcome in. I I’m so excited to have you guys today.
That’s so thoughtful. I know you’re busy and I know that this is a big
another big chunk of your time. So, and if we start talking about athletics,
it may go off the rails. Honestly, I mean, I’m a big fan. I mean, we were
just talking beforehand. I I mean, do don’t say they in the ‘9s with at Rice
Eckles and here we are again. I mean, come on. 1890s. I mean, there it was it
was the best time in football. Bombs, big hits, like big shoulder pads, like
you know what I’m talking about? Like big thigh pads. I know what you’re
talking about. I think I still think those like when I see somebody from back
then like you see Randy Moss like in high school or something he has these
big thigh pads like I’m just like he looks so cool like you guys look the
coolest your jerseys I just want them to do the same jerseys you guys wore
just red with it’s just a red and white mostly red two stripes with the you
know with the Don’t get them started on helmets with a drum feather with a
drum feather that’s it that’s it just and maybe some like with with a
high-rise Oh crop. Yeah, Liz used to wear the crops a little bit, but you
know what I mean? Like you see a little like abs at the bottom. Maybe I
couldn’t do that because you have to have abs to do that. Luther Ellis. Yes.
Right. That’s what that I mean maybe that’s where my head went. Luther did
that. And and he was like he was a defensive lineman, defensive end. Uhhuh.
He by the time he left the U he came in at like 235 lbs. By the time he left
he was almost 300 lb. Oh my gosh. He was still running with the linebackers
when we would do drills and stuff and he had a six-pack. He was the guy that
was pumping up the ground. Anyway, that has nothing to do with Albian and
Fit. Dave and Liz Finley. I could go on 90s football, man. Yes. Is Finley the
Is that your real last name or is that was that shortened at some point? Um,
I think it goes back It goes back to Scotland. Um, New Mills, Scotland. We
made the mistake of going there last year. Yeah, we did. We I went Yeah, we
went back. It was in December. That’s not the best time to go to Scotland. It
was like a huge We went up to like the North Sea. We sat there. We should
have taken a train. We drove, which was a little intense, but but we did go
to New Milan. It was pouring rain. I was like, the wind was blowing at first.
I was like, I want to go back. My skin’s going to feel good, you know,
because my skin’s so dry in Utah. But then I went back there and it was just
raining and pouring. I’m like they made the right choice. Maybe maybe this
summer it’s way better, but it was it I mean anyways the golf there is
amazing out here. You didn’t golf while you were there? Well, our girls No,
we went to St. Andrews and we stayed at St. Andrews on like the 18th, but the
day we went it was go to Harry Styles filming locations. We one of his music
videos or St. Andrews. And so what we did is we went we went on a detour for
the whole day, but it was cool, man. It was it was a cool spot. It was a
great song. But we got to St. Andrews at like four o’clock. It was a
beautiful day. People were playing golf and we just watched whatever that
like you that bridge. We just watched people play on that swill bridge. There
you go. Yeah. People are walking their dogs. I’ve been on that bridge. Okay.
And and and you know the North Sea is right there. Yeah. And that’s where
they filmed Chariots of Fire. No way. Oh no, I didn’t know that. I love that
movie. And there’s a We would have spent more time except our daughters had a
detour. Yeah, they detoured you. The other thing about St. Andrews, there’s
the college. Yes, we did get to explore that. Okay. Yes. There’s a tradition
at the college. I think it’s hap it it happens about this time in the year,
the spring, right, where everybody in the town and the college students go
down to the beach, strip down and jump into the North Sea. Oh, no way. Yes.
That’s crazy. Yeah, I was there. Dave, did you do that? Are you serious?
Would you Did you go Did you go with No, I was such a baby. You just did that
for fun. No, I would not do that. I was such a baby. I was like, I’m going to
undress in front of all these people I don’t know that. It should have been
like, yeah, I get I’ll undress in front of everybody. Who cares? They know.
They don’t know me. I know. That’s what I should have done. Maybe we we can
go back go back. I’m going to find out when that is. Okay, that’s awesome.
So, this is this is a great story. The Albian Fit story is a great story and
and how you guys met and started building this company and where you are
today. So I’ I’d really like to go through that story if if you’d like to do
that. If you want to talk about something else, we we can do that talking
about other keep going back to football 90s because I thought you were I mean
that was so fun, man. But I’ll try to keep it on try to keep us on track.
Jared, who’s producing for us today, he’ll tell you. I don’t feel constrained
by an outline. I love it. I always have an outline and then it goes all over
the place. I just think it makes makes it more interesting. Yeah. And so
we’re easy. We we’d really like people to know more about you. And I really
like the lessons in your story. So, and if we can take it the way that you’ve
done it in the past, like just plan A, plan B, plan C, plan D. I don’t know
if any part of the other parts have come up but not yet. Why don’t why don’t
we start there? First of all, I’ll ask you a question. You both grew up in
Utah. I did not really because you I grew up so born and raised in
California. Uhhuh. And then when I was nine, we moved to Guatemala. My mom is
from Guatemala, but my dad’s from Salt Lake. And your dad was in real estate.
He retired. You went to Guatemala. He had a midlife crisis. Now that we’re
entering into that age, I’m like, “Oh, my dad was 45.” Kind of
understand. Daddy had a midlife crisis of the land. Yeah. He was like,
“I’m done. I’m retired. We’re going to go live this, you know, alternate
experience in Guatemala. It’ll be great for the kids. You’ll learn Spanish.
You’ll learn anyway.” So, but this is key to the story. It is because he
got bored. He got bored. He wanted to golf and then I guess after about a
year, Yeah. he got bored. And and my dad always had an entrepreneurial
spirit. He just did. And he is always moving. He’s always doing stuff. He’s
always going on trips. He’s he is like he’s a doer. Yeah. He’s just he’s just
one of those people who’s always kind of like bringing people together. Yes.
Um and he just loves trying new things and he loves a challenge. And I think
at first, you know, the impetus was to keep my mom busy. he was going to buy
her this little factory and it’ll keep Lucy busy and they can sew things for
the local market and it’ll be fun and and then uh he just got more and more
involved and then before you knew it, you know, the family’s life savings has
been invested in this business and but it was really great for our family. It
was really great for Guatemala. I truthfully people knew my dad as the crazy
gringo because he came in and he helped put in processes that helped raise
minimum wage. He helped bring in the mackila, which is the sewing industry,
to Guatemala because it it wasn’t there before or just very very undeveloped.
He helped kind of build the bridge between like America would Americans, you
know, they’d feel comfortable with him um working with him. And so he he
really brought a lot of business down to Guatemala with the with the sewing.
And after that, I think it was one of the first real stops that they kind of
offshore things. And uh it was just he he had like a safe space for people to
feel people loved that he was an American. There was no language barrier.
There was no cultural barrier. And honestly the time zone was great. Right.
You you were just an hour or the same time as people in the states. Oh. And
then the people in Guatemala loved working with my mom because she was
Guatemalan and she spoke their language and she understood them. And so they
worked together. My mom handled like the sewing floor and developed the team
there and then my dad handled more of the partner and relationships. So when
he bought the factory, what were they producing initially? So one of the
first customers that I remember was Ocean Pacific. Do you guys remember that?
Yeah. Are you kidding? The first corduroy shorts. Those are awesome. I still
I know OP’s like been in like maybe like Walmart and some other places, but I
don’t care. Whenever I see that OP symbol, I’m just so nostalgic. So that was
one of the very first customers. And yeah. And so they worked with Jansen.
They did swimwear with Jansen. They worked with Nike. They worked with
Reebok. They did NFL jerseys. And the company just grew and grew and grew and
and it was your dad who was getting these contracts to Okay. And it was
great. They never had to solicit work. People, they just had a great
reputation and people loved working with my parents. Yeah. Interesting. I
mean, it’s amazing. Even you go to Guatemala today and like where there’s
like a place it’s called Bolivar is the Avenue of Bolivar and there’s this
place and there’s all this fabric there and all these trims and all this
stuff and I I really think that’s where their factory started and I think it
really is like where you go to buy fabric and it kind of became the garment
district. Yeah. Because it was like all the like the leftovers kind of like
got anyways. So it’s interesting even to this day I feel like there’s a
legacy there. Okay. So, how you were you were in Guatemala, but obviously you
didn’t stay there because you guys ended up you ended up meeting Dave in a
copy room. Yes. In Utah, Salt Lake City. So, I went to this really small
school for American LDS kids. So, you can imagine how many of us there were.
There was like 13. Yeah. And so, you were essentially tutored there. And so,
I finished high school when I was 15. So, took the ACTs when I was 13. and
they just really kind of ship you off to BYU. And my dad was a Utah fan. We
were My dad was a third generation of Utah. He wanted me to go to University
of Utah and he wanted me to have a American high school experience which I
didn’t have. And so the idea was for me to come back to Salt Lake and live
with my dad’s brother who had I had a cousin that was my age. Finish up high
school at Olympus where my dad went and just kind of redo a couple years. I
still graduated a year early, but um so finished that and then went to the
University of Utah and wanted to be an attorney. That was plan A. I wanted to
be an attorney. Yeah. And Dave I would meet Dave there who I don’t know why
you were working there actually. Why were you working there? I don’t I mean I
I just Let’s get to the Yeah. I was trying to figure out my life really
because I I I serve I you Okay. So you went to you went to school locally.
Highland Highland High School. Yes. National champion. I mean, I was on the
team, but yeah. Yeah, I guess. Come on. This guy. National champion. If I say
Highland Rugby, like that. I mean, I was around I was around those guys. Cool
guys. What was the movie? Forever strong. Forever strong. That’s you. Well,
there I mean I think it was some other dudes, but you know, I know them. But
you were there. Yeah, I bet it was more than that. Anyway, so you had this
great high school athletic career, rugby, football, other stuff. I love I had
a great high school. I loved high school. It was so fun. I went I served an
LDS mission in Thailand. Um I’m trying to kind of I went to a year of college
just kind of get my generals done. And I was really kind of like coming back.
I I was feeling good because I was kind of dialed in. There was a bunch of
like high achievers when I was on my mission and they were like, “Let’s
go.” And so I was like I was kind of like excited to like get on and and
and my dad was an attorney and I I kind of wanted to see what that was like.
I was like I’ll I’ll check it out. And so I I check out the law firm. Yeah.
Check out the check what it’s like. And so I went there and obviously I just
making copies and sending faxes. So working in the copy room. Working in the
copy room. Just trying to see if maybe that would be the life you wanted as
an attorney. And you wanted to be an attorney. So you were Yes. You had you
you were more intentional. I I Yeah, I wanted to see what it was like and,
you know, maybe get my foot in the door with a firm that I would maybe want
to work with eventually. And I got the job because a friend’s dad was an
attorney there, too. So, but I’ll never This is This is one of my favorite
things to So, I parked my car one day. Mh. And I pull up and there’s this
1982 white uh Land Cruiser. Okay. The boxy kind. And I remember looking at
that car being like, “That’s a cool car.” And it is. I don’t know
why. Maybe this is kind of weird, but I peaked in the car. The car? Yeah. I
just was like, because she’s like that. She’s like that, man. Let’s just just
be be you, man. You’re just Yeah, just be you. Snoopy. Take a peek. But there
was a rugby ball in the front seat that you recognized that I recognized. And
there was a beautiful watercolor painting in the back seat. And I was like,
who is this Renaissance man? The hottest man ever must drive this car. You
know, I was like, “This guy is a perfect Who is this human?” And
I’m 19, so you know, I’m looking, you know, I’m You’re you’re on the market.
I’m on the market on the market. On the market way too much on the market.
And anyway, and then I walk in and there’s this new guy who’s like doing
copies and I only see the back of him. He’s wearing these like navy No, he’s
got a navy corduroy shirt, these like khaki pants, and a little braided
leather belt. And I’m like, “This is this guy looks kind of Who is this
guy?” And then he turns around leather belt. Yes. Brightest blue eyes
I’ve ever seen. That’s true. So handsome. Black eye. And I was like, “Oh,
who who’s this guy?” Like he had an injured eye. So my choice of what I
wore was really professional. No, it was You’re saying it was pretty bad. It
just It looked It just looked like you were trying really hard. We all had
that outfit, especially the braided. Why did we do I loved it, dude? You Hey,
anywhere, any size. It’s right right there. you know, you could always like
you could move it like one braid, you know, it’s like dialed in. Um, so
anyway, we have a great day at work that day. I’m like, “Oh, this guy’s
great having fun.” You got to know each other. Yeah. We walked to our
car and I would say this, guess whose car it was? Mhm. Dave’s car. But I have
a question about that. Well, I have several questions about that. One is, how
much snooping were you doing to notice that he had a water? Do you just do
that all the time? Are you doing that to other cars? That’s no like that’s
not like just peeking in like, oh, it’s nice leather interior. Like, are you
still doing that to this day to other people? Build that car. There’s an
empty bag window. It is. There is like there is a lot of windows. Do you
remember Windows? Do you remember what the painting was or just a watercol?
No, I do. It was your Thailand boat. Okay, so uh Okay, this is when I was
like 10, I had this friend and he all we did was draw. Like all he wanted to
do is draw. So I go over his house, we just draw all day in his school. We
just draw. Like that was his like but I was into it too, you know? So like but
he was really good. And so just draw, draw, draw. Like from like 8 to 11,
that’s all we did. Just draw. And and in high school, you know, I kind of got
like into other stuff. But in college, I took one art class and it was just
like some foundation, you know, basic art, but I killed it, man. Like, you
know what I mean? Like, you put your things up there and I’d spend like 5
hours and I wouldn’t even realize it, you know? It’s just like kind of one of
those things where I’m like, “Ah, this isn’t practical.” Like, I’m
always trying like trying to get back to like maybe I should, but at the same
time, it was like just something that like I just like loved, you know? I I
love where this is going. I know the story, but I I love all of this context
because now I can I can see how it all aligned. That’s what I would say about
you is you finally found alignment because you’re you were like, I love art.
Like you all of a sudden you felt like this is my space, but you were like, I
better go work in the copy room at a law office. Yeah. And honestly, and
Dave’s background, so his family, they’re all these amazing musicians. His
grandparents went to Giuliard. His really grandpa was the symphony director
at BYU for years. His mom, they’re all have doctorates in music. They’re all
just insane musicians. And I think Dave, it’s, you know, as years have gone
past, you can see that those are all artistic geniuses, but in music. And I
think Dave has that artistic genius, but with, you know, art founded in another
way. Well, I don’t know. I’m not I’m kind of a hack, but at the same time,
I’m all right. And so, but I do feel like there is like just having that
background of seeing those guys like achieve their, you know, actually make
it and like their craft, their craft. It it was it was cool to see because
they were like perfectionists you know and like it is important especially in
art whatever you’re doing is just you know to execute like you know to
whatever that level is but there is a level that you have to achieve to to
really execute and they were good at that. Yeah that’s amazing. Okay I want
to get back to the copy room. Yeah. And what happened in that time? Yeah.
Well we just became best friends. We had so much fun like and we were friends
for like a year and a half like we were just like we just work together and
it was cool. You know when I don’t know if you’ve ever been in a place where
you just like what Liz keeps it light you know but she’s like a hard worker
but just you know you go to a place and it’s like it’s kind of like you’re
kind of almost like looking forward to it because you have if you ever been
at a workplace like that where you’re just like it’s like we’re going to work
but like we’re going to have fun and like we’re going to get a lot of stuff
done and it it was fun. Like they brought in a new office manager and his
whole thing was to outsource the copy room. Like that’s why he came. Like
that’s that was his plan. Like, hey, I’m coming in here. I’m gonna outsource
you guys. But but not to us, but like these kids, we’re gonna get some we’re
gonna get some. So like Liz and I, that was the first time, but like we’re
pretty tight. Like we we’d stay late. Like they’d have a brief and this is
when you had to go to the airport to FedEx stuff. So we’re like driving out
to the airport, they have a brief, we’re waiting till 7:00 at night. You
know, Liz, we’re like going through the papers to make sure not. We were kind
of like we got kind of tight with some of the attorneys and especially the
secretaries. Mhm. So then this this person came in and he’s like an adult,
you know, and we’re like, man, this guy’s coming after us. We’re like
copyright, you know what I mean? I love it. Yeah. But we did, guess what? We
won. They didn’t outsource it. They couldn’t outsource it because you were
you were so good. They decided not to. But but and I don’t know. But at the
same time, like we had there was a group of like six or seven people that
just got super tight who we’re still really good friends with to this day.
Really? And Liz is like, “Hey, like come down to Guatemala. Come come
check check out Guatemala.” So like she invited everybody and half the
people. Why did I do that? Wait, she invited you invited the copy room? Yeah,
the coffee room invited come down, get your ticket. We’ll take care of you
when you get down there. Okay. But so your parents are still in Guatemala and
they’re still running the factory. And I was madly in love with Dave. And I
knew the only way I could get him to fall in love with me is if he came to
Guatemala. He wasn’t already. You weren’t already. We were justided. It was
very platonic. And I’ll tell you how I found out. We really were just
friends. I mean, in my wildest imagination, I really couldn’t even pretend
that we were dating. We had never gone on a date. We I mean, but we hung out
as friends, but very platonic. the the runs to FedEx where you didn’t there
was nothing we were together I mean that’s you’re the typical you’re the
typical guy all the signs and you’re like no but I was you want to go get
some French fries I mean I don’t know and I was like in love with like our
fingers would brush and I’m like maybe like pushing this hot spot I’m like oh
maybe he maybe he likes me but so my plan was I was like I’m going to invite
everybody to Guatemala cuz my dad would bring friends and he has like this
little tour that he does all the time and I’m like okay we’re going to invite
everybody down the coolest We’ll get Dave. Dave is going to fall in love with
me. This is the plan. And so Cameron, he he can go. Jared can go. All of
these people who are in the cop room, they’re like, “Done, done,
done.” The only person who hasn’t said they’re going yet is Dave Finley.
And I’m like, “hm, this isn’t working out.” And so I we’re at lunch
one day. I’m like, “So Dave, when are you going to get your
ticket?” You know, and he’s like, “I just I really want to go. I
just don’t know if my girlfriend’s going to be okay with it.” And I was
just like, you’re what? You have a wait, your best girlfriend. It was that’s
how platonic it was. Like to him, we were literally just friends. Like best
friends. Best friends. But you never told her about your girlfriend. Never
told me about his girlfriend. Exactly. This might have to get cut out to be
honest. You might not be able to include this. I felt like I kind of I feel
like there were probably times I told her that I had a girlfriend. Maybe I
think I I think I might have I think I might have said it a few times. I
don’t know. We have to go back. You never said it, Dave. We have to look at
our life. If we could go take a video back. We’ll see if you ever mentioned
that. But all the meanwhile the people at the at the copy room would look at
Dave and they’d we’d have be having lunch together and I’d be like,
“Will you pass me the French fries?” And they’d look at Dave and
then be like, “You know, she’s in love with you, right?” Like they
were everybody knew. Everyone knew I was in love with him. Anyway, Dave gets
his breaks up with his girlfriend, goes on the trip finally. Finally. And
yeah, he become we he kisses me on the trip. Oh, so it worked. It worked.
Your your plan your master plan. Swift mastermind. Do you know that song? I
was the original. I hate to admit it, but we all know that song. Yikes. There
were chess pieces and everything worked out. You were the chess master. I was
the chess master. Is that still does that still would that still describe
your relationship today? You’re the chess master. And Dave, all I know is
there was a lot there was there was a power shift. There was like, “Hey,
Liz, you want to stay late? You want to help me? Like, can you stay for a
couple more hours?” And Liz will be like, “Yeah, let’s do this.
Liz, you now it’s kind of the other way around. It’s kind of the other way
around. It is. It’s switch. But you’re kind of given the signs like, “Do
you want to stay late?” You wouldn’t be like, “Hey, I got to go
take my girlfriend on a date.” She get she count things. She is great
with numbers. This is very telling. It is telling. This is very telling. But
so coming back to Albian, because that’s my job is to make sure that we don’t
start talking about football again because I know that that’s where the
conversation is going next. I can already feel it. Is we would hang out in
that Albian basin. So we would always go hiking there. We’d always go biking.
while you’re working in the copy room on after I would say this is after the
after Guatemala after Guatemala that next summer that’s where we’d hang out.
I want to ask you about the copy room because I know the story a little bit
and what I took from that story I want you to talk about this is the
importance of enjoying what you’re doing because you’re just working in a
copy room and that’s not like necessarily a career path but you found great
joy in that. I I love it. And I would say it it is like it was such a good
thing for me to find a place where yeah, we’re working and we’re doing stuff,
but we’re we’re keeping it light and we have people that we’re looking
forward to like being with and and I love I love just going anywhere where
you’re like it’s a drive-thru and somebody is just like vibing and they’re
like, you know, you’re just like, dude, that person love like in that moment,
whatever it is, you know, or wherever you’re at, you’re just like I love when
people it just feels like they’re cool with what they’re doing in that
moment. And I feel like that’s what we found is like we found that like we
can work hard and and do things, but at the same time just like keep it not
too intense, you know, and just keep it fun and like still be productive and
we were Did you have the same? Yeah, for me it was the first time I’d never
done sports like on a team and I loved feeling like I was a part of a team. I
loved it. I loved feeling like I could count on people specifically Dave or
and the other people in the copy room. I knew at the end of the day we would
get the job done and do it well. And I I loved that was very gratifying for
me. And I feel like that definitely has informed the type of people that we
hire is we want them to be people that we know that we’ll get along with,
people that will rise to the occasion. Yeah. You know, I love it. I think
it’s such a valuable lesson. Yeah. And I’m glad that you guys have recognized
that as you look back across your career and across your life that the
importance of being content, having fun, enjoying where you are. You can’t
always control the circumstances, but you can you can control your attitude
about it and your effort and yet your effort. Yeah. And I think we both love
doing a good job. There’s so much satisfaction in that. And I think once you
get a taste of how that feels to just do something really great with people
that you care about, it’s it’s so intoxicating. You just want you just want
to do that more and more, you know. Yeah, I feel like absolutely that’s the
biggest motivator of what we have now and just you know bring it to the
present is just creating these whatever it is whatever we’re doing these like
collaborations or something and it is a lot of like work and there’s all
these people coming together and just to see how we can make it and how it
all comes together. It’s like amazing and it’s just so fun to be a part of
that whole that’s so much better than like the little parts of it, you know?
I I want to talk about that more as we get closer to the end of this. We
still have a lot to go through, but but the the importance of not just
enjoying what you’re doing, but like you said, having the right team and the
right people in place. I think that’s another lesson that you learned a long
way. Okay. So, this is kind of we’re still plan A. You guys thought you were
going to be attorneys. You’re working in the copy room, but something changed
and plan A turned into plan B. Yeah. So, plan B was we ended up we got
married. Um, we dated for three years and hung out in the Albian Basin. In
the Albian Basin and we ended up moving to San Diego. Uh, I decided to kind
of switch what I wanted to do for my career and I landed on being an English
professor and I’d gotten my masters at the U and then Dave graduated with his
uh, so I went in graphic design program all in on art and I and I yeah I
graduated you at the in the graphic design program. Yeah. So you did end up
deciding you followed your passion. all my passion. I mean, it maybe it’s a
curse, too, but it is like so hard to if you if you just love that, it’s so
hard to get away from it, especially if you’re good at it because it it is so
fulfilling. It really is when you can see your stuff and like to this day if
like one of our my print like goes does well, you know, and where you see you
see somebody like like some beautiful person wearing your swimsuit, you know,
you’re like, “Wow, like that person that person like is is very
fulfilling.” Have you recognized is this a trait that he’s always had
like getting joy out of other people and having joy in whatever they do? Yes.
But what going back to teammate, right? Like I found the perfect teammate,
right? Like someone who’s always trying to he’s like, but no, but Dave, you
are everyone’s cheerleader and like the team captain. And I think that is
such a great combination. It’s invaluable. You have to have that. You have to
have that guy. And it was cool seeing Dave apply into that graphic design
program because it was something it was very uncomfortable. I mean, you know,
he had to really put himself out there and do something that he hadn’t
trained. These people had been doing art their whole lives, I’m sure. And
Dave had postponed it since he was 11 years old. And all of a sudden, he’s jumping
back into this as a 22-year-old, you know. Well, he had to win national
championship, but watch people, but I got to see him do that whole program.
And if your daughter’s in it, you know how intensive it is. And so, it is.
And so, we got to do that together, just seeing him. And I got to help with
some of the projects. He and his mom and I became really great friends just
helping be his like little artist assistants, you know, with these different
projects. I love it. But um yeah, but Dave got a degree that really taught
him how to have a profession, which I think was very different than mine. It
was you have an English degree, so I learned how to write and how to make
arguments, but I didn’t know how to get a job. And so for me, it was like, okay,
then I’ll be a professor. And I and I loved literature and I loved reading.
And so, and she was good at it. like she had a thesis that was really like
people were gravitating to. Like I went the first time I went to England was
because Liz was giving a presenting a paper at Oxford and then she went back
east to present it in like she was the biggest conferences that were like in
her field were asking her to give the her papers. So it was she was killing
it like this in your PhD program. Yeah. And is this based on your thesis or
what was this? No, the the thesis was um the emphasis was 18th century
British, but oh, it’s very boring. I tried to tie the birth of the novel to
the birth of confession in 1215. So, yeah, it was a novel idea. That’s in the
early 2000s. Novel. Yeah. I I think that could be another podcast. Well,
anyway, when I do my old English literature podcast, you’ll be first. My
first wonderful. Yes. I’m sure that people would just be waiting for that one
a one podcast run. But we Yeah, we moved to San Diego and we loved it. It was
Okay. So, you’re in San Diego, you’re in school at UCSD. So, UC San Diego I
know UC San Diego and I grew up in Southern California, so I know I know a
little bit about it, but I really tie Wait, is that true? UCSD, University of
California, San Diego. Yes. Is that where Jim Harbaugh was coach coaching or
was he at the university? I think it was USD USD. I think that’s right. We
didn’t have a football. It was more nerdy. They had a surf team. You didn’t have
a football program. There was no football. They got a great water polo team.
Great water polo. So, it wasn’t a real call. Yeah, it really wasn’t. That was
Well, the thing is we were choosing between that and Notre Dame. And I know.
We were like Notre Dame. And they were so cool. They were so good to us. They
took us They took me. I’m not I’m like I’m like the spouse. They’ve been
Yeah. They took me they they had us stay in the hotel. They had us like wal