From Pastor to Packaging Pro: Adam Peek’s Unlikely Sales Journey

I’m gonna think about the other person first. I’m gonna put
their needs above my own. You know what? What matters to them. That’s how you
make a sermon, right? So, I just apply that to sales outreach. I’m not saying
it’s 100% or it always works. It just it just means that I can bring a
different perspective than most people. And candidly, most sales training,
most sales training is not based on empathy and compassion. And I mean, it’s
a lot about listening. But how do you train somebody to listen? It’s very
difficult. Welcome to the Know Your Ship podcast presented by E-Hub. I’m your
host, Frank Dolce. This is the one and only Adam Peak. P E. That’s true. K.
Like Peekaboo. Yeah. Not like a peak. A mountaintop. No. Which when I grew up
in front of Pikees Peak, I got a lot of people who were like, “Oh, like
are you related to Zebulun Peak?” No, Zebulon Pike. I’m not uh Peak is
not the name. It’s just like the description of the top of the mountain, I
believe. Just a little just so you know. Just a little Yeah. Housekeeping
there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, if you grew up across the street from Pikes
Peak, I mean, I could see it from my house. Then that means you grew up in
Colorado Springs. It’s true. Near the Air Force Academy, right by it in Monument,
technically Monument, Colorado. Yeah. Did you Okay, I have two questions
about that. Are you from a military family? No. I mean, no one wait, we pay
taxes so that we’re like investors, but no one grows up in Colorado Springs
if they’re not in a military family. Apparently, you’ve met the one. The
Peaks are the only Okay, so no military. No. And have you ever have you ever
done the rail trail? Do you know the Have I taken the rail? No. The Okay, so
there’s a It’s in the Red Rock area. Okay. Colorado Springs and it’s called
the incline. Oh yeah. You’ve done the incline all the time. All the time.
I’ve done it many, many times. Okay. So, I’ve done the incline. Yeah. I did
the incline one time. It’s a onem hike. It’s almost a onem hike. It feels like
it’s 2,000 ft of elevation. 1,000 miles. Yeah. It’s tough. I And I started
out kind of like I’m I looked I was like I’m I’m just going to jog up it. I
started out jogging. You were jogging. Yeah, that was Yeah, it didn’t last
very long. And And you should have called me before you did that. I would
have told you that’s a bad idea, bro. That’s where That’s where the US
Olympic wrestling team trains on the incline and you just their their only
rule is you can’t stop. You can’t take a rest. So, you have to go up it
straight up it. And then there’s a guy that has done it several times. He’s
done it twice back to back. Mhm. And he set some world record like 14 15
minutes to go up that thing which is unbelievable. Yeah. There’s people there
that do it almost every day. And even like little kids like they’ll be like
teenagers. So I would be going up it and I felt like I was pretty, you know,
in shape. Yeah. And I’m sweating and like some like 12-year-old girl just
sort of like scampers on by you just cuz they’re, you know, her family does
goes to the incline. Like it’s a whole it’s a whole thing. I mean, it’s it’s
a fun hike back down cuz you don’t go down, you go down the trail, the bar.
Very nice. It’s a nice hike. It’s It is. It’s But it’s tough. I mean, going
up. It’s rough. Yeah. It’s walking upstairs for a mile straight. Yeah. Like
big Yeah. And they’re inconsistent these steps anyway. Yeah. No, it’s it’s a
cool I like I like the incline. The incline’s fantastic. What What kind of
name is Peak? P E K. I So, let me tell you what happened in my life. I was
told by my grandfather um that he was Polish. So, he would he would tell us
all like he would like speak random Polish words when I was growing up. He
make us kilbasa and do that all that stuff. Very Polish. Yeah. And so I’m
like I guess my family’s Polish. Well then I did one of those tests and 23
and me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it was like not Polish and I’m like well what
I’m just basically some sort of like European mut. Do you think I just think
he liked Polish food? I don’t know where it came from. I was gonna say but
nothing against Grandpa Peak. Yeah. But would you pick Polish as your
nationality? Like if I don’t think he picked it. I think this was a the era
of non-information, you know, like the early 1900s. We didn’t exactly have 23
and me and Google and all these. Although I think 23 and me is bankrupt now,
so we’ll go with ancestry. Yeah, let’s do that. We didn’t we didn’t have all
this. So he probably was told we’re Polish. And he was like, I guess we’re
Polish. You can’t fact check it. And then you know you know mom or sister or
whatever just starts making Polish food. That’s how things happen. This is
why so many people thought they were Native American until this test came out.
They’re like I’m definitely an eighth. Everyone was like an eighth Native
American until they had to do the the test and it’s like until they figured
out that they were you are not the father. Like oh it’s just a giant Mory
Povich show. I’m never going to do it. I mean, because we’ve been told I’ve
been told what our genealogy is, and I don’t want it to change. I like it and
I’m afraid that if I take the tests, it’s going to tell me something
completely different. Yeah. Ignorance is bliss, I guess. Yeah. So, I’m just
going to stick with it. And like you said, I mean, it’s just you kind of
adopt it. You think you’re Polish, you start cooking the food, you learn a
few random Polish words. I know. I don’t even remember them. Yeah. And then
you’re not Polish, which is like most people I don’t I don’t know. It was
just a weird It was a weird thing. So I think I’m more British and Irish than
anything, but it was just a there was a little bit of Polish mixed in with
some random Eastern European. And I don’t know. It’s just a I’m I’m You’re a
Mut. Just a an American mut. Yeah, we’re all muts. It’s just an interesting
night. I was wondering if it was short for something. I was told it was short
for a Polish last name and I’m pretty sure that was also not true. Like
something some name that ended with ski, but I don’t. He’s like, “No, it
got shortened.” And I’m like, “No one seems to be able to verify
this.” Probably. Okay. So, you grew up in in lovely Colorado Springs, a
non-military family. How did you How did you guys end up in Colorado Springs?
Uh my dad was working for this uh you know kind of sketchy startup named
Intel if you’ve heard of it before. Oh my gosh. Are they still around? Yeah,
I think are they even still around? I think they’re still around. Um he was
an engineer and so I was born in San Jose and my mom wanted to not live in
San Jose and raise a family. So they found Colorado Springs and moved there
in 1982. I want to say they moved to Colorado Springs. Um and then John Elway
followed from Stanford to Denver. So I think they just were trying to follow
John Elway I think is really what it was. Yeah. Um why why not? I don’t Yeah.
I mean I I don’t know. So that’s how they ended up there. He started selling
semiconductor test equipment from Colorado Springs, I guess. Uh, no longer
with Intel. No, he left Intel. It was He left Intel to move to Colorado
Springs. Yeah. Still in Okay. But in the semiconductor industry. The
semiconductor industry. Okay. Or the mob. I’m still not quite sure what he
does or what he did. Did he ever say he did import export? Like I’m an import
export consultant. Son, don’t ask any questions. I’m in freight tail, son.
Yeah, I worked down at the docks. Yeah. Yeah. No, he never he never Yeah, that
would be a bad place to be. Yeah. Well, was it a happy childhood? Mhm. Yeah.
My parents still live in the same house that I grew up in. Really? Yep. So,
they’re still there. Um 40 plus years later. And I have two sisters that are
twins that are younger than me. M um I my wife and I went to the same
elementary school, the same middle school, the same high school, the same
college. Uh yeah, I don’t like I look back on my childhood and say that
again. Your wife, my wife and I, you went to the same elementary school,
middle school, high school, middle school, high school, college, and to
Colorado State University. Wait, the the the Colorado State University, the
Harvard, the Harvard of the Rockies. Go Rams. How many schools conservatively
call themselves the Harvard of the Rockies? I’ve never heard of anybody else.
I mean, other than uh SU, which is obviously the second Harvard of the
Rockies. Go T-Irds. I don’t know. I don’t have any affiliation with Southern
Utah University. I just feel like it’s Sweden here because I moved here and
it was like I got to pick a team. I guess I have to be It’s either like the
the Y or the U. Do I say the Y or is it just BYU and the U? How does that
work? Yeah, I think people who have an affinity for BYU call it the Y.
Really? Yeah. Okay. Um, but I just decided to pick I was like, “What
about Weber State or Southern Utah? Those are my teams.” So, are those
your two teams in Utah? That’s who I’ll cheer for. Yeah. Oh, right. You have
no affiliation with the Y or with the U? No. Other than other than I do I do
have I think I’m the only person who still has this. It’s a Russian nesting
doll set. Do you remember those? Like Oh, yeah. Where they But it’s uh Andre
Miller in a Denver Nuggets jersey. And so I still have that. That’s my like
only piece of like University of Utah related sort of. Yeah. Paraphernalia.
Yeah. So, were you were you in Colorado Springs when Andre Miller was playing
with the Nuggets? Yeah, that would have been I was in Colorado when he was
cuz he was here in what 98 I think and then he went to he played for the
Clippers and he played for the Timberwolves and the Trailblazers and he’s
been had an unbelievably long career in the NBA. Deservedly so. He’s one of
the most underrated point guards of all time. Isn’t that the truth? if you
ask me. Dead ringer for Richard Prior. And he has the highest voice. Have you
heard? He talks like the voice does not match. Like whenever I hear him talk,
I’m just like, “Wow.” But you know, he would show up at like the
YMCA in Denver and he would just hoop. He just loved he just loved
basketball. He just loves basketball. He just loved it. Yeah. Yeah. I was a
little disappointed. Uh I was I was actually kind of hoping that he would be
at the like he would be coaching at the University of Utah this year. And
when that didn’t happen, I was kind of like that sort of seemed like a miss.
Yeah, a little bit. Who knows? You never know. You never know. Maybe he’ll
maybe he’ll land there someday. Okay. So, are we going to start? We We have
Oh, we have started. I introduced you and then I started asking about where
you grew up. I know. I know. This is the way this podcast works. I mean,
we’re we’re going to get to your fascinating packaging life. That’s all I
ever want to talk about. I mean, I’m tired of talking about Poland. The
preacher of I loved the Poland stuff. I that we’re going to make so many good
clips out of that. That like that’s going to be Sorry. That’s going to be so
great. And the Pikes Peak thing. I mean, there’s another good Yeah. Yeah. But
I just want people to know about you a little bit more before we get into
Let’s do it. What you are ask me any question today. What did you study at
Colorado State University with your future wife? Were you married at Colorado
State? No. Okay. Um my wife uh she is the we’ve been married now for wait for
it 22 years. Um congratulations. Thank you. Uh we five five kids, one wife.
Uh I know. No, I love when you say that. Do you say that because you live in
Utah now and people ask you, you know, just got to clarify because I because
people are like, “Wow, five kids in Utah.” And I’m like, “It
just I just have the one wife.” But just one wife. Um, no, we were we
were married when I graduated from college and she was a senior at Colorado
State, but we didn’t start dating till I was in college. I asked her to prom
in high school. Turned down. Like, she was my high school crush. Never
reciprocated. She did not want to date me in high school. Why? Why was that?
I think it was I just got more attractive when I got to college. Yeah. I just
No, it had nothing to do with that. Um What were you like What were you into
in high school? What did you do? Were you Were you Were you an athlete? Yeah.
So, I played basketball. I played tennis. Um I played some baseball. I was
like I was uh the nice way of putting it would be like I was really full of
myself in high school. I thought I was a very confident. It was a very big
deal. Yeah. My letter jacket was super important. Um, you know, and then I
went to college at the Colorado State University, the Harvard of the Rockies,
and I realized, uh, I’m not a big deal. Like, I’m at this massive university
now. Nobody cares about like it was a bit of an identity crisis. That you
that you averaged 4.3 per game. I think I averaged about seven and five my
senior year. I was leading the state for a little bit in assists. Leading the
with five assists per game. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn’t a time. Remember this was
like the like uh this is like the Patrick Euing like era like post like you
just get the ball down to the post player. There wasn’t a lot of ball
movement back then. Yeah. Um but I did I didn’t end up leading it, but I was
averaging like I don’t know six or seven assists per game for a while and it
was like you’re the number one state. Yeah. You were a big deal for a while.
That wasn’t attractive enough for your No. No. because uh she did not want to
date the arrogant, you know, student body president. She wanted somebody who
was like humble and kind. It was weird. I’ve never read an article on dating
when that come up, like be humble and Yeah. So, I went So, I I go to I
literally I go to Colorado State and I’m like I’m not that I have a bit of a
like weird identity. You know, most people go to college and it’s like they
just want to party and like tear it up. I went the exact opposite in my
thing. I was like I was like sitting in my dorm room just like reading my
Bible every day. Mhm. And I was just like I’m going to become a pastor and
I’m going to go just travel around the world and I’m going to teach people
about the Bible. That’s what I’m going to do. I can I can never get married
because that would be a disaster for my spouse. And it through this process
ended up becoming the type of man that my now wife actually wanted to be
with. But I wasn’t trying to change for her. Piece of dating and marriage
advice. Don’t try to change for the other person. I was just becoming the
type of person that she wanted without knowing that that was going to happen.
So that’s what happened to me. That was my that was my freshman year of
college. I I ended up like pastoring a accidental church. I was 18 and we
were just meeting. I was leading a Bible study and all of a sudden like Did
you organize it or did you just It was me and my buddy Gary. Gary and I we
played basketball together. Gary was 29. He was from Kentucky. He found out
that I like to teach the Bible. He’s like, “You want to come to my apartment
and we’ll invite some of my friends?” I was like, “Sure.” So I
was like 18. We had people ages mid-4s on down to college students. And I
would just And you’re the you’re I was the guy. I was just like, “Okay,
this is what we’re going to do.” What were you teaching the Bible? Like
did you did you teach like sequentially? Like did you go Old Testament, New
Testament, or you just picked pick one book and then go through that book and
be like, “What are we going to talk about next?” Oh, god. Cuz it’s
not a It’s not a sequential book. It’s a very uh If is this the Bible
podcast? We can get into it. Um yeah, it’s Well, I mean, actually know your
ship. That means like if you know your ship that you might know something
about the Bible. Yeah. So it’s organized by literary genre. Um so it’s five
books of the law, 12 books of history, five books of uh poetry, five what are
called major prophets, 12 minor prophets, four gospels, one book of history,
21 letters, and then one book of prophecy. So, it’s not actually written like
a sequential book. There’s like the most bizarre story though in the Bible
with Solomon where they’re like arguing over a baby and he’s like, “What
if we split the baby in two?” And everyone’s like, “You’re so
wise.” And I’m like, “That sounds like horrible advice.” Like,
there’s no way that anyway, different time. I guess you failed to see the
wisdom. I clearly there’s a lot of funny moments in the Bible that I funny moments
like wait there’s there’s extraordinary I’m going to use the word
extraordinary I was going to say crazy but I’m going to use the word
extraordinary moments in the Bible and and like like going back to how the
earth was populated and you know relations between Yeah. You know, I know it,
right? Wouldn’t you call that extraordinary? I know. I call it weird. It’s
fine. Um like there’s a there’s one where uh David goes to propose. Speaking
of his wife, he’s going to go propose to Saul’s daughter whose name is
Michael. And for some reason, David has to bring 100 foreskins of the
Philistines, right? But David decides to go extra. He goes the extra mile and
he’s like, “I’m going to bring 200.” He That is a crazy to me. It’s
just like, “Bro, just do the just do the 100. Get the C minus and get
the girl.” Like, why you got to go? Cuz it’s not easy, I would imagine,
to circumcise another person. Just be like, that’s just not And this is why
this is why I’m no longer a pastor, by the way. At what point does it become
easy? I mean, you’re talking about 200 200 dudes like 20 20 in. Are you like,
“Oh, wait. I got this.” Then you’re just like, it’s just like a
It’s like a Henry Ford factory. It’s like a production like boom, boom, boom,
just not No, I don’t think I think it was a pretty It was a pretty terrible
process back then to circumcise somebody. This is like the great internet
question. Could a 100 men take down one gorilla? It’s like, could one man
circumcise 200 men? Clearly, I don’t know, but apparently it happened and he
got the girl where Okay, so reason I I love this podcast, not only because I
host it, but because of this story right here, like this story about how you
became a better man, not be not because of some exter like I I want to date
this particular person, so I have to become a No, you bec became a better man
because that was what you what you felt like you needed to do. Like that was
your personal journey and in that journey you just became someone who became
more attracted to the person that you wanted to date in the first place.
Yeah. She is the she’s the hottest woman in the world and so it’s pretty
great that I get to still be married to the most attractive woman in the
world which is great for me. Why did you That’s why I have five kids. Did
Yeah. Did you Did Okay. Did you grow did like was Bible study prevalent in
your household growing up? Um not. We went to church like we went to a
Christian church growing up and I went to Christian youth group. But that um
that process kind of made me into a bit of a narcissist. I guess in a weird
way that I mean it was it was part of it, right? A lot of it was just like
being a a big fish in a small community can do that to somebody. Um, so it
was it was actually sort of a disconnection from that that made me go like
maybe there’s something to that beyond just like a place to go hang out with
my friends. And um so certainly the the foundation there. My mom is a
tremendous woman of faith. Uh, she still probably, shout out to Lydia. Uh,
she probably still prays for me every single day. My grandmother’s name,
Lydia, but she wasn’t Polish. She was Russian. Oh, I was like, are we related
then? We’re probably, um, probably somewhere going all the way back to like
how did we all get here? Um, and, uh, you know, and my dad uh, my dad became
a Christian later on in his life and has just been just I I talked with him
today on before I walked into the building. I was having a conversation. So
still really close with my parents. Um, so yeah, I mean there was obviously a
foundation there, but it was almost like a it was kind of a supernatural
thing for me to just be like, I want to know more about this book. Mhm. So
there’s something in this year. Like I was literally my parents had to call
me and they were like, why are your grades slipping? And I’m like, you’re
never going to believe me, but I’m skipping class cuz I’m reading first
Kings. And she’s like, but you can also go to class. I’m like, I know, but
this story is so crazy. I just couldn’t stop. Let me ask you this. I did fix
my grades, though. What What is the worst excuse for failing grades in
college? What is the worst excuse between these two? Is it my grades are
terrible? I’m so sorry, Mom and Dad, because I completely lost focus and I’m
partying with I’m enjoying the college life. Like, I’m on my own for the
first time. I’m partying with all my friends. I’m staying out late and I’ve
let my studies slip. I’m sorry. Or mom and dad, I feel terrible. No, I
didn’t. I did not feel terrible. My grades have slipped because I’m immersed
in the Bible. Yeah. So, one is more believable. I’ll say that much.
Definitely more believable the first one. Uh but it was 100% true. Uh and so
I did I did have to I did have to uh make sure it went to class. So you you
got your you got your grades up. I did. I did. Good for you. Prayed about it.
Yeah. Went to class. Yeah. I figured out how to hack into the grade book and
No, I did not do that. That’s cheating. Don’t do that. That has to be the
most interesting excuse for failing grades of all time. No, they weren’t
failing. I just I was a good student in high school. Story better. Okay.
Failing grades. Fine. Failing by my standards. Yes. Very good. Okay. There.
There you go. Okay. I love it. That’s a great story. This led you down the
So, you were amateur pastor as well for your group of buddies. Was the
29year-old Gary in school? How did he He was in school there. He just never
He was like Tommy boy. He just never No, he just didn’t graduate. Gary had a
really cool story. He’s a phenomenal basketball player. We met playing in the
rec center. Um from Kentucky, had gone to college, uh got heavily involved in
drinking and drank his way out of college. So, so the more traditional route,
not Bible study, the more traditional college and had uh gotten his life back
together, was just looking to just reapplying to different places and uh
ended up at Colorado State University. And so we met we met playing
basketball and he was like a 510 dude wearing like cut off jeans just killing
everybody on the basketball court. That guy wearing a Gar Brooks shirt and
just couldn’t miss. I mean, I one time was shooting around with him. I think
he made 40 straight threes just casually just shooting. It was unbelievable.
Gary or was it Larry Bird? No, it was not Larry Bird. Wow. I know. It’s Gary
Bird when you said his alter ego. I love a southern accent. I wish I could do
one. I wish I could talk. Try it. Let’s hear it. Let’s hear it. I don’t I
can’t do it. Every accent I do starts to sound like Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Wow. All of my We don’t need to hear that. My mom was from uh from the south
actually. And oh, great. Which which part? Uh all over. She had a pretty
remarkably crazy childhood. And one of it part of her story involves uh I’m
going to I hope I get this I hope I get all the details right, but she was
living in just the remotest part of Arkansas, like the sticks, like had an
outhouse kind of a situation, very very poor. And she had seen this was right
after um Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated. Mhm. And she had seen
pictures of the man um James Earl Ray I think was his name who assass and he
was on the run and he showed up at her house. What? Because they were just
out in the remote part like on the run from the cops asking for like an oil
funnel or something like that. And so he left and my mom went and called the
FBI. She was in she was like a teenager. Yeah. She met She met Your mom was
instrumental in the capture of the assassin. Yep. Wow. I know. That’s an
unbelievable story. Yeah. And apparently she told it to my sisters like super
early on cuz I didn’t hear it till like 2 years ago. And I was like,
“Mom, how did you never tell me?” She’s like, “I swear I told
you this.” And I’m like, “Mom, I would remember I remember you
telling me this story.” Implicated the assassin of Martin Luther King
Jr. Yeah. Yeah. That’s a great story. Yeah. Great family story. It’s pretty
good. Okay. So, now you’re you’re in school. What do what are you studying in
college while you’re part-time being a pastor? Business management. Business
management. And at that point, did you decide that you wanted like that?
That’s your career path was going to be with the church. You were going to be
a pastor. That was your or I was thinking like maybe I’ll be on a podcast on
at the e-hub in Utah. That was my that was my angle. Well, but so so this is
the pinnacle of my life. Shoot for the stars. Yes. Yeah. Um, no. So, I Yes, I
was absolutely that’s what I was going to do. I was going to go become a
pastor. Um, my dad in his infinite wisdom was like, “Okay, but you’re in
you’re in school. Stay there. Finish your business degree. You can always use
business wherever you go.” Um, and so I did that. Uh, I did later on in
life, I went to, this is actually interesting. I was flying out here for
work. So, I’ll fast forward a little bit. But uh this was part of my sales
territory and Utah was and I was pastoring a church in Colorado Springs and I
was selling full-time for packaging and I was in seminary which is like a
master’s level like doctorate study biblical studies kind of degree. Mhm. And
so I was talking to somebody out here and I was like I got to go back to my
they were like do you want to go grab dinner? I’m like no I got a big test in
seminary. And they were like, “What?” And I’m like, “Yeah,
what? Why are you confused?” They’re like, “Why are you in
seminary?” And I’m like, “What do you think seminary is?” So I
got a whole introduction. You you had the other type of seminary. Yeah. I was
same word, different different uh different applications. Yeah. Um, so
anyway, yeah, so I do I I did end up kind of pursuing uh a more formalized
degree later on in life, but yeah, I graduated from Colorado State and
immediately went into pastoral ministry. So I was a college and youth pastor.
Gotcha. And at that point, you were you pastoring full-time and Yes. That was
your That was your That’s how you made a living. Yes. Were you also in sales
at that time? No, no, no, no. Gotcha. I was never going to go into sales.
That would be terrible. Um I uh I got married to my wife right out of right
out of college. Um so we got married and then I didn’t actually go straight
into now that I think about it, I was the overnight assistant manager at
Walgreens uh for the la better for the back half of my uh back half of my
college career. So, I did that for a little bit and then I went and worked
for an organization called the Navigators and I was in I was a college pastor
for them and then my church hired me as the middle school and high school
pastor. So, I was making somewhere around $1,800 a month uh doing those two
jobs and my wife was a elementary school teacher. So, that was how we sort of
cobbled together a a living. Gotcha. Yeah. Did were you part of a specific
denomination? Sort of. Yeah. So, I am ordained through the Southern Baptist
denomination. Um, but was would pretty much call myself a a
non-denominational. I don’t fit super neatly into like this, you know, like
whatever Methodist or Baptist or Presbyterian or something like that. Gotcha.
Yeah. Okay. So, at what point in this down this path did you decide, well, I
can’t I’m not going to be a pastor full-time anymore or what was the
inflection point? Yeah. So, um I mentioned that I have a very attractive wife
and so she became pregnant with our first with our first child, uh who’s now
who’s now 18. Um, and so she really she was like, “I would love to stay
home and raise our our kid or children or whatever it was, whatever we ended
up h having.” So, uh, not we knew it was going to be human. We’re pretty
sure, but like we weren’t sure how many kids we may have. We may have one, we
may have, you know, 17. I have no idea. So, I’m like, “Oh, all right.
Well, I’m doing math and I’m like, I have to get a different job because I
just I couldn’t we couldn’t afford for we couldn’t afford to live off of what
I was making. So, I I was I went to go I went and worked at Starbucks and so
I was doing that and pastoring and just and it was a lot. I was, you know,
probably 60 to 70 hours a week just trying to put all this together. And then
uh my uncle uncle Bob uh needed some help at his packaging company in
Carl’sbad, California. And so he offered me a job to You’re in Colorado. I
was in Fort Collins at the time. Yep. Uncle Bob is in San Diego. North County
San Diego. Southern California with a packaging company. Yep. And he said and
he needed help. He needed help. You needed a job. Yep. But you were
passionate about being a pastor. Correct. So, we moved to San Diego. I was
the general manager. So, I learned a bunch about business. I learned everything
but sales. I didn’t I was never going to be in sales. That was not going to
happen. Uh, and we lived there for about 3 years. It was awesome. Um, Peak
Packaging Solutions is still around. Bob’s doing a great job uh building that
company. But I got a I got a call from a friend of mine. He wanted to start a
church in Colorado Springs and he wanted me to come do that. And so, we moved
back. You left Colorado. You left the packaging company. Yes. To go. You’re
done. But now you’re going to be back full-time pastor. It are you going to
make more money at this point? No. Uh it was totally volunteer. So I had to
get I had to find a job to supplement it and and I got a job selling
packaging. Not making a lot of money by the way. It was it was tough sledding
there for a little bit. So I was selling packaging and pastoring this church.
And then the where the where like probably the biggest inflection point in my
career was we reached a point where the church was big enough that they could
pay me to we had already had one full-time pastor paid pastor uh and I could
have gone on salary there. Mhm. And I just had these moments where I was
meeting with people and I had like a week where I was like here in Utah and I
was in Denver and I was meeting with a bunch of different people from all
walks of life and we were having just incredibly deep conversations. Start
off talking about, you know, labels and boxes and end up talking about, you
know, their marriage or their, you know, their struggles with something or
other. And I was like, “What is happening?” And I was telling my
wife that and she’s like, “Maybe this is your pastoral field is not like
in the in the church full-time, but out with, you know, just hanging out with
people and doing your job and meeting people from all different walks of
life.” And so that was that was my big inflection point where I was
like, “All right, I’m not I’m essentially an evangelist. That’s what
sales kind of is. An evangelist is like the bringer of good news. And so
you’re supposed to be like, “Hey, I got good news. We have this thing,
whatever it is.” And they’re like, “That’s actually bad news. Go
away.” And you’re like, “Okay, I guess you don’t like it.” Um,
but really, and I was having a conversation with somebody today about how
like being a pastor actually really trained me for sales because I didn’t
have the traditional like background. So, it like it was easy for me to make
a cold call because I just hung up with somebody who’s like their son was
addicted to heroin and we were trying to figure out how to help him or you
know someone’s marriage is falling apart or whatever it is. Like these are
the conversations I’m having at night and on the evenings and it’s like hey
you got to call someone at whatever probar. It’s like, okay, you know, like
is that I’m not going to have a harder conversation than like, oh, this
person just died and we have to help plan their funeral with their widow.
It’s like so being able to engage with with people on on the deepest and
lowest parts of their life with empathy and compassion and then being able to
bring that into sales and having like honesty and integrity and and
creativity and empathy, you know, all these things. I found sales to be
actually a very natural place where I thought it was j