From Moos to Mule Deer: The Muley Freak Brothers’ Epic Trek from Dairy Dusk to Hunting Dawn

welcome to the know your ship podcast presented by e-hub I’m
your host Frank doce that’s the poacher that’s that’s the poacher the deer
poacher well I mean the crazy thing about it is that it’s just it like your
whole business model is and it would have been just I mean you could still
run the business left and made them run it done something else I’m honored to
be on the set with the van warham Duo the the brothers by the way I said van
warham this is Eric this is Aaron I said van warham that’s a very anglicized
way to say your last name do do you know the original how you say it
originally I lived in Sweden for two years and uh there was a Dutch guy in
one of my Wards and he said it was fun you do I speak Swedish I don’t speak
Dutch so I I don’t know how to tell you exactly but that’s what I’ve been
told it means from right van means from so from veram warham oh yeah there’s
actually a city in the Netherlands named Van warham really yeah so van warham
is from Van warham yep you know the way that you just said it it sounds like
you like that’s a vampire hunter name I mean maybe that could be one of your
things is you you know there’s TV shows about that now vampire Hunters that’s
a big deal say that again how do you say your last yes that’s it sounds like
a swear word in fact in in Swedish fun is the f word is it really in Swedish
it is yep can you teach me how to say that afterwards I think if you say
swear words in languages other than English then we don’t have to edit it no
they say our swear words all the time all the time all the time and it’s just
like saying hello yeah exactly yeah and it was really fensive to me as a
missionary is that where you served your mission yeah that’s where I served
my mission oh by the way I didn’t do the proper introduction we got into your
last name but Eric Aaron these guys are the founders of a great company that
we get to work with called muy freak uh so why don’t you just take five
minutes or whatever you want give us the 30,000 foot foot view of muie freak
yeah 30,000 foot view muie freak we are a YouTube channel slbr um who also
makes some specialized custom products um a YouTube channel we showcase our
hunts our lifestyle our adventures in the mountains uh both bow hunting and
rifle hunting and with that we have kind of a popular brand we’ve created
behind it called me freak that we do branded stuff t-shirts hats hoodies um
and more recently some performance apparel uh puffy jackets Marino wool and
then kind of our Flagship product is our game changer bino harness it’s a
custom piece that a and I worked on for two years that accommodates the bow
hunter and the rifle Hunter alike and it’s one-handed operational no magnets
involved sits on your chest nice high and tight doesn’t move whisper quiet
for the bow hunter and uh we’ honestly kind of I don’t know just uh crushed
it with that thing so awesome uh and I did check that out on your website now
you are what is your title with the company uh CEO so you’re Aaron’s boss I’m
Aaron’s boss are you also the older brother I’m the older brother okay well
so that kind of works out and Aaron you’re director of marketing is that fair
or is thats okay director of everything else yeah you know I I really relate
to that I feel like I’m a jack of all trades with e-hub hence in addition to
my other duties I host the podcast so I a jack of all trades that’s where you
find yourself as well what do your daily activities look like um literally a
little bit of everything and Eric just you know Eric does a little bit of
everything too and we each you know maybe are a little more heavy and and
certain aspects but we’re we both have our hand in everything so gotcha heavy
in sales though over here so does Aaron though yeah I mean so yeah we do a
little bit of everything marketing Marketing sales sales design design
getting yeah content content overseeing new stuff that’s being designed and
built and yeah getting it here and selling it and from A to Z well I heard
that maybe both of you but I heard that you have a little bit of background
in sales you cut your teeth in maybe the most challenging sales Arena
available yeah in the door-to-door industry yeah kind of a funny story I got
off my mission from Sweden and uh you know as every young kid wants to be a
billionaire right and so uh and they want to get to it fast they don’t want
to wait I got some elevator pitch of hey if you sell 20 alarm systems door to
door this month you get a flat screen TV that was when there was big one yeah
that’s when there wasn’t it was a 42 iner oh my gosh massive so not really
big yeah and I was like okay I can sling 20 alarm systems you know and I was
working a satellite job selling satellites over the phone and like door to
door man that’s brutal I just got done doing door Tod door for two years and
it was yeah it was it was brutal when when you say let me just clarify when
you say door to door you’re talking about your mission yes selling Jesus door
to door yes yeah which is very valuable very valuable I wouldn’t change for
anything I loved it but challenging I’m a Jesus Lover I believe in Jesus
through and through he’s my savior but uh yeah trying to sell like man if I
can sell Jesus I can sell an alarm system home protection I just had this
vision of a of a new door to-door home security system you know based on the
life of our savior I think we might have something there if you want to do
something else let’s talk after yeah Christ alarm just kidding anyways so
yeah so I just started that and then I made then I it was almost like I was
so excited about the TV I didn’t realize that I’d made $8,000 that month as
was a 21y old back in 2007 which is a big deal right absolutely so I just
started doing it more and more and realized you could travel I traveled a few
years did uh Virginia Beach Wisconsin did Seattle a couple Summers and so I
kind of was a little bit selfish and just did it for myself but uh you know I
I I also was in the mindset like hey most these guys come or do this for 3
four months then they come home and just sit around don’t do anything spend
their money whatever I’m like I want to be making money still so then I
developed the model uh to do it year round and I started doing it here
locally so I always had money coming in and I was saving it saving it saving
it so um yeah I I was I just wasn’t satisfied with the three four month
income type thing gotcha MH did you have a similar experience selling door
Todo and yeah I didn’t do it as long as Eric but I came home and I went
straight to pest control so I did that for a season and a half a year and a
half let me ask you a question yeah okay we have solar we we have pest
control and we have alarm systems mhm door too how how would you rank those
in terms of which has the highest status and which has the lowest status I
would say solar’s the highest alarm’s next Pest Control last not to say you
can’t make tons of money in pest control because you absolutely can it’s just
probably the easier sell you can do more volume right if you’re selling three
three to five alarms a day you’re crushing it test control you could do 12
accounts in a day 12 to 20 accounts how many hours all day long yeah all day
knocking knocking doors all day I mean Chandler Chandler I know he Chandler
Bergen is who we’re talking about who who works with e-hub is a director of
sales yeah and for a long time you know he he’s slinging pass control too but
Chandler Bergen let’s be honest to be fair Chandler Bergen is nearly seven
feet tall yeah he’s big how could you say no to him if he knocked on your
door that’s what I’m saying he’s about the nicest guy how are you going to
say no how are you going to say no to that guy and I don’t know if he did it
out when he was selling but in in the office every day he wears this belt
buckle that is larger than some of our employees that is intimidating in and
of itself his bull fighting belt buckle yeah Chandler bull wouldn’t even he’s
too lanky to be on a bull a bull wouldn’t mess with Chandler actually don’t
me that’s what we say in the office Bulls Bulls don’t mess with Chandler okay
so you both cut your teeth in the door Todo realm um which probably served
you well moving into your current company but it did it it believe it or not
I I I don’t know what you’re G to say but I’m going to say something here I
was doing I was doing sales a sales degree at weer State University fact Wild
Cats the wild cats had a class with Dame dollar shout out to Damen Lillard
you did not yeah he probably he wouldn’t remember me it was one class are you
sure maybe he’s on a podcast right now and he’s like and he’s talking about
me probably Eric r k wouldn’t remember me yeah yeah anyways so I just
remember thinking why am I doing this stupid degree everything I’m learning
is on the doors seriously my education for people and reading people came
from on the doors and I learned I learned a massive amount about people in
sales doing that well I got tired of doing door to door right in the snow
Utah Winters so I I took what I knew about sales from people and I turn it
into digital marketing and so I made this transition from door sales I had a
company believed in me took a risk with me taught me digital marketing and uh
they felt like I had a knack for it so I went in and I spent their money and
I got good at it and so I took what I knew about how to touch people and
motivate people to buy and I turned into digital marketing that’s a great
it’s a great story and it’s a great transition and I love the what what you
talked about in The Experience being your your greatest teacher I think
people feel like I can go get an educ you know and and it’s there’s nothing
wrong with it I can go get an education I’ll be able to come out get a good
job um and maybe it’s just a little scary to think my best education is
outside of the classroom I feel like that’s been my experience I went through
I went through college got a Bachelor’s I got a master’s and still I would
say that my most valuable lessons have come just through experience is that
something that resonates with you as well yeah I would say you know you
talked about lessons I would say even skills so I went to I got a marketing
degree I was at Utah State and Weber State and I was learning just archaic
information like they weren’t teaching social media yet they were talking
about coca-colas you know how they won and lost big you know and big in uh
big things that they did but I was so archaic they weren’t teaching anything
about social media digital media marketing you know nothing like that and so
they’re you know they’re so so far behind so everything I Learned was and I
got a you know I got a degree but I learned how to write probably from my
degree that might have been the only thing I got which is valuable super
valuable and I use it every day um but yeah I I would say I I learned very
little from from my actual education in the classroom in the classroom yeah
it’s an interesting it’s interesting and there are lots of people like I mean
you’re not going to say you know you can go be a doctor by just going out and
having experiences you know you need a degree for that doctor dentist
whatever nurse lawyer absolutely but but this stuff I’d rather take a person
with experience you know I don’t care what dude I don’t care what your paper
says I I don’t care what you I care what you can do yeah well I think there
the other the other thing that you mentioned is knowing people and
relationships and that’s invaluable yeah in the business world with customers
with employees with peers sure I think the relationship part of it is super
un undervalued yeah 100% so let me ask you this let’s let’s go back a little
bit I’m assuming that what you’re doing now muie freak is is based on some
passion that you had growing up yeah definely is that is that okay so let’s
go back to that where did you guys where did this whole thing happen where
did we start yeah we started out in far west Utah on a little dairy farm
maybe 250 Acres uh 150 milking cows farmed our own ground uh my my mother was
the firstborn of my grandfather he’s one that on the dairy farm and we lived
across the street and so at a young age 5 years old we got thrown in the Milk
Barn against our will and uh we we learned how to work hard and we had to be
up at 4:00 a.m. as little kids to go on milk I think we made five bucks an
hour child labor it was it was and no big screen TVs no big screen TVs No in
fact we we grew up Aaron and I kind of grew up a little bit different just
because um he kind of grew up without a mother and I grew up uh until I was
13 with a mom or mom had cancer ah so why my mom was going through those
cancer treatment we were we were poor and when I mean poor really poor the
releas society came over they provided meals for our family my dad was trying
to provide for not only all these medical bills but also you know five
children on $440,000 a year you know if it would have been for my
grandparents my mom’s parents we wouldn’t have made it but um you know it’s
that’s the make or break stage where children can go one way or the other
depending on if they have support and it was really rough for my dad I think
I was hard on my dad once upon a time but now that I’m a father I’m I’m more
understanding it all changes right it all changes and he went through a lot
just to just to keep going for us so we grew up pretty humble but with that
we grew up uh Hunting Fishing and um around animals and dairy animals horses
we grew up hunting horseback we did Fair animals I did steers and pigs Aaron
did pigs actually did a lamb one year too so we grew up kind of doing we
didn’t do rodeo per se or posi but we did 4 and uh even when we were a little
kid I can remember I couldn’t even walk or and hardly step in the mud because
I wasn’t strong enough but going on the Pheasant hunts out in the back cuz we
can hunt out of our backyard which is an amazing thing now that I’m looking
back and 37 38 years old but also um waiting for them at the door when they’d
come home from their deer hunts like hoping that they’d get a deer like that
was that was my life and Aon and I both love sports and we heavily involved
in sports but my first love was hunting and animals um I absolutely love
animals and love them and and because I love them so much I love to hunt them
you know I’m going to ask you a question a follow-up question don’t let me
forget because that’s an interesting statement that you made but I wanted to
talk to Aaron about your experience growing up in that as well and and doing
the same things Hunting Fishing was that did that turn into kind of your Escape
I mean you you said you grow up poor that’s maybe you didn’t know it but
that’s it’s hard you were kind of living under difficult circumstances did
you get to escape through these other activities that you were doing yeah
100% and it wasn’t just hunting but our Grandpa would take the horses every
summer probably three four times he’d throw us on the Saddles and he’d take
us through the mountains and we’d go find the uh the calves that the elk
would just have right so the the baby calves and he he’d ride us up three
four times a year and that was our Escape right and then you know rolling
into fall we got to go hunt um Eric was lucky because he got my grandpa when
my grandpa was a lot younger and sprier I still I still got an awesome
Grandpa and he still did a lot with me but Eric got the young crazy tough
grandpa um when I say crazy tough he was 60 65 to 72 and he was still tough
yeah still tough riding horses old grandpa tough and he um he he was probably
one of the first guys that you know you’d heard of that was going and hunting
like multiple States like he was you know he didn’t just hunt in the fall you
know a week out of the year cuz it was tradition and fun like no my grandpa
loved to hunt he’d go to Idaho Wyoming Montana Utah and he hunted like crazy
and so again instilled that into to Eric and I and and you know his sons my
uncles as well and my grandpa was an entrepreneur too he he wasn’t a poor
Dairy Farmer he was buying up land Grandpa why’d you buy why’d you buy this
piece of land sell it the next year and he did really well for himself he was
he had that entrepreneur mindset and so those are yeah those are a few things
that our grandpa really instilled into us and you know our dad he had he had
a hard um a really hard time with my mom passing away but one of the things
he absolutely loved was pheasant hunting so he’s a little different my
grandpa my grandpa loved big game hunting my my dad absolutely loved pheasant
hunting and that was my dad’s Escape so Eric didn’t get as much of this cuz
Eric was out of the house but he would go pheasant hunting literally every
week for three or four months and he dragged me along so I grew up it was an
escape we’d go out every Friday Saturday and we were gone for the the full
weekend pheasant hunting so definitely an escape for for us well you that’s a
great it’s a great backstory and it’s leading down this path I really love it
you mentioned that you love animals I’m going to I’m going to put that on
both of you you love animals you respect animals you grew up with animals and
then you said and that’s why I love to hunt animals some people might say how
can you make that statement how can you love animals and then hunt animals
yeah yeah it’s a it’s an interesting statement but here’s what those people
can’t say is that all the money I spent on Hunting uh goes towards preserving
and conserving those animals so for example the money that I spend in tags
and licensing goes for law enforcement to protect those animals it goes to
Habitat restoration for those animals right what are you spending your money
on that helps these animals nothing I don’t know does bucked up yes yeah do I
I’m hoping bucked up has a charitable organization yeah yeah exactly but but
you see my point like the the the hunting dollars that I’m spending is going
towards helping these animals and Aon and I are always doing service projects
to help out these animals and um you know and no one’s sadder than him and I
or we see one wrecked on the freeway or we see these homes being built on
these beautiful side Hills in their wintering grounds taking away their you
know their winter feed you know what I mean the these people that don’t hunt
them they don’t understand what they’re doing to to the habitat and you this
hunting is a lifestyle for you but this is also a way that you put food on
the table yes we don’t we don’t I can’t remember the last time we bought red
meat we don’t buy it we don’t buy meat ever occasionally chicken MH or and we
don’t even buy our salmon because I’ll just call it my buddy in Homer Alaska
and he sends me salmon and halibut so so I need to get in touch with your
buddy right so so everything the spaghetti lasagna anything we anything we
cook Hamburger it’s everything we eat everything we kill and harvest
ourselves so which begs the question do you have a favorite is there a
favorite meat that you like to hunt uh there’s a fa animal I like to hunt but
there’s a favorite meat I like to eat my favorite animal to hunt is obviously
Muer mu freak and then and then my there you go yeah but my favorite thing to
eat is probably uh prong horn wait a second everyone says it’s gross I know
everyone says it’s gross it’s unreal it’s not it’s really good I I uh I have
don’t take care of it take care of it in the preparation mhm really you can’t
let you can’t let that hide touch the meat it is so potent and strong really
and it and it traps heat so you got to hurry and remove the hide from the
animal from the meat and then how do you prepare it oh just whatever there no
special way to prepare it yeah no it’s it’s just it’s just take care of it
when you kill it gotcha there are tricks to make it like tender and to cook
it well there are some tricks but you know like wild gaming doesn’t have all
this fat like you know you cut up a a beef cow and it’s just marbled and it’s
got so much fat right because they finish them off at feed lots and they feed
them Oreos and whatever they can find right you don’t want to know what they
feed them at feed Lots yeah I’ve been to feed Lots multiple feed Lots it’s
disgusting and that’s how they finish a cow off that’s why you get that big
marbling but with you know Wild game it’s super lean so when you cook it you
got to make sure it’s moist you know it’s easy to overcook so you just got to
take care of it cook it you know you learn little tricks on how to cook it
too make sure it’s done right but this may sound like a crazy question but is
it is it safe to say that the meat that you harvest is more healthy or better
for you to consume than the meat you’re purchasing oh 10 times 100% yeah more
protein less fat you can go look I mean we have a chart on our website that
shows it like the protein to Fat ratio MH and Wild game is I mean it’s so
much higher in protein so much less and fat it’s it’s ridiculous so and
that’s you know aside from what else they you know antibiotics or all the
other stuff whatever El that’s supposed to be yeah right well that’s
fascinating so you grow up with this love of hunting Love of Animals you have
this interesting sales background you trans IED it into kind of the digital
marketing and tell me now how did that trans you were able to take your
passion and turn it into your business which I think is the perfect thing to
do I tell my kids all the time like just what find what you’re passionate
about and do that go go figure out a way to do that and you guys have done it
yeah yeah thank you I appreciate that I always said my dream job was either
to be a professional hunter or something in the hunting or being professional
sports if I couldn’t be a pro ball player which I mean every young kid who
likes ball dreams of being a pro ball player right um I want to be in a pro
organization and honestly I I like hunting better I I like hunting better
than ball and and may maybe not in high school maybe I didn’t realize that it
was kind of like couldn’t choose because they both meant so much to me but I
I didn’t have as much time to hunt because of how involved both really both
of us were in athletics so um I I decided you know I wanted to take take my
passion like you said and turn it into my business and so I was like I saw an
opportunity with this Facebook thing and I saw that they’ and this was in
2012 you know and uh I’m like man there’s got to be something here and they
came out with company pages right so I just like why don’t I create a company
page I didn’t know what I was going to call or what I was going to do I’m
like I’ll do something hunting and so I’m like what am I going to call and
I’m just like well Muer is my favorite thing so mu is the slang term we’ve
always used for him so I said muie freak and I started a page didn’t have a
logo and I was like oh well I’ll do a logo and I like oh wait a second I’ll
do a giveaway so I went to Smith and Edwards bought a shotgun and uh did this
giveaway blew up to 60,000 followers in in two days so I was like what the
heck I have something here and during this time Aaron was on his mission so I
was just kind of like doing this on the side while I was doing my other
digital marketing stuff and I was really annoying my wife because I was like
man these look at these followers coming in these are real people and they’re
commenting and sharing and all these things I’m like man I’m like what am I
going to sell them and so then I came with this idea that said show off your
rack with a deer logo oh for women classy yeah very classy love it and I
posted it up on a on a Sunday and sold like $2,500 in t-shirts so I’m like oh
man then then these ladies started sending in the pictures of them wearing
like okay maybe I should do this cuz one of my young men in one of my Wars
said something about it and I was like okay I’m going transition here and so
basically I just started developing other merch and yeah got just kind of
snowballed from there and then I developed partners uhhuh you know hey let’s
do a giveaway together you know someone like Hornady for example and that’s
how I got to like and I remember thinking as a kid I wasn’t a kid I guess I was
26 27 but I’m like I can’t believe these uh outdoor companies talk to me you
know what I mean cuz I dreamed of being in the hunting industry right if I if
I couldn’t you know be uh work alongside Larry H Miller I was like I’m going
to I want to work alongside someone in these big companies and and hunting
you know you mean Larry H Miller in terms of playing on his basketball team
either that or working organization or something you know just thought that’d
be cool to rub shoulders with pro ball players no yeah why not I’d much
rather be a pro hunter than a pro ball player I think a lot of pro ball
players now want to rub shoulders with you it it’s it’s interesting we’ve had
a lot of pro ball players reach out to us yeah absolutely we’re like we’re big
fans we’re like wait what you’re fans of us we became friends with some uh
baseball pitchers last year Cody Bradford plays for the Rangers and pitched
in the world series is also Frampton for the Astros So when you say you
became friends is he are those guys fans of the brand or do you do something
with those guys what we haven’t really done anything with them we got small
young families so we don’t have a lot of time for that uh collaboration type
stuff maybe in the future but you know they just wrote us or autograph balls
and said we’re big fans oh that’s awesome it’s pry cool cool that’s amazing
so what what lineup of products are we looking at with muie freak A apparel
uh yeah just your regular shirts hats merch stickers that simple type stuff but
also like the Marina wol long sleeve piece that has a zip down here for a
heat dump a hood kind of protect you from the Sun thumb holes so the bow
hunters or ear season hunters even in the late season can have a performance
piece then we have a puffy jacket that we developed that we thought we wanted
something lighter more packable if you watch our YouTube channel we do a lot
of backpack hunts you got to have light gear for that yeah and then like the
vinyl harness which is arguably like one of the most important pieces of gear
in terms of your success rate for bow hunting having everything right here
your bino your Rangefinder your winator everything dialed right here on your
chest and be able to be quiet so you don’t spook game be a dear elk or Antelope
and uh that that’s really our Flagship product we feel like we really uh Aon
and I worked really hard on it for two years we feel like that’s really we
make the best one in the world right now yeah it’s very popular yeah so you
guys and and when did you started the business you were on your mission so
correct when did you come back and jump in so October 2013 I got home from my
mission and then I sold started with the pest control company that next
spring worked all summer kind of did some stuff with them in the fall and
then Eric’s like come come work with me come do it with me and uh so that
November November 2014 I started helping them and yeah we just kept going
from there that’s awesome so 10 years you’ve been in yeah almost 10 years and
we we started out um we started out doing uh digital marketing for other
companies so we were acting as a marketing agency weed a l of grow and like
mu freak like is taking a backner for cuz we started we were helping other
companies he’s right we’re like hey for a long time yeah and we were it was
our job to consult these companies and Coach them how to do their marketing
and some listen some didn’t it’s Consulting right we’re giving our opinions
sure but we just developed the mindset like hey we can lead a horse to water
but we can’t make you we can’t make you drink but we can drink it you know
what I mean so we’re like why don’t we just do this for ourselves and so I
say really full-time full-time meie freak year and a half two two and a half
years maybe last two years we really took the YouTube channel serious for
three the last three years we’re up to 250,000 subscribers YouTube so let me
ask you this when you decided a year and a half or two years ago to dedicate
your resources to muly freak is that is there measurable growth from that
point oh considerably like inan the moment the moment we stopped Consulting
for others and worked full-time on mu freak it was immediate but took you a
long time to get that point cuz we had the consistent retainer money coming
in right and it’s hard to pass that hard it’s hard to pass up but like um
yeah we we just knew that the ceiling for our own our own gig was way higher
than these others and we understood the value of certain things we were doing
and we were we were trying to help these companies understand hey if you
plant these seeds here you’ll you’ll reap the growth you know in 6 months to
a year here and we’ve done that here cuz we knew if we planted these seeds
they would eventually produce fruit and that’s what’s happening now these
seeds that we planted 6 to 18 months ago are now producing fruit and so you
know it’s working out so one of the things I like to do in this podcast is
identify the teaching moments where where a lesson was learned or something
that you could offer The Listener so in that what you’re talking about
planting the seeds maybe taking the risk what is what is the lesson what did
you guys take from that what is something that listener might take away from
that in terms of you know what we’ve been doing this for 9 10 years and now
we’re going to we’ve either positioned ourselves or we’re just going to take
the risk to to make that leap and do it full-time where where is the lesson
for everybody here the lesson for me is the patience um you’ve got to do
things that may not produce immediate um Roi or gains but you’ve got to be
patient with the process knowing and being confident that you’re doing the
right things that’ll eventually produce fruit laying the foundation laying the
foundation and then you know the motivation leaves like when you first start
a business you’re super motivated Right Way motivated motivation motivation
carries you right but like the motivation leaves I’m I’m if I’m being honest
like I’m I’m not motivated that much anymore it’s it’s just a matter of
executing knowing that I have to do these things to produce fruit now I have
good days where I’m super motivated things are happening but there’s also as
a young entrepreneur there’s there’s low days things you’re not getting
responses for or you’re not you know you’re having problem getting product
you know uh supply chain issues yeah it’s easy to get down and depressed and
want to quit but it’s it’s what you do in those days that dictate the success
of your business well and those are I think there’s another lesson there and
and maybe that goes back to your you know back to your the way that you grew
up under very difficult circumstances there were days that you just have to
push through you just had to figure out how to push through on your mission
selling door too I mean I I would say that all of those experiences help get
you guys through some of those difficult days yeah definitely and like back
to the farm there were there were uh weeks months years that milk prices were
low that I was too young to understand the difficulty of the business but uh
grandpa saying man milk prices are low they’re killing us and then my grandma
saying milk prices are low we don’t know what we’re going to do you you know
and as a young kid that’s hard to hear cuz you’re like well I still had
groceries I still got this I still got a house to live in you don’t you don’t
think of maybe you don’t look at that stuff in the lens of an adult right mhm
yeah that’s exactly right you just don’t recognize it like you said until
you’re a dad and perspectives change so so now you you jump in you’re doing
you know you’re in your passion you’re doing it full-time doing it every day
and then this weird then comes the jealousy and the haters yes this weird
crazy incident occurs and uh yeah and the jealousy and the haters and and
isn’t that interesting uh that in fact I think I heard you say it on another
another podcast you know people are rarely concerned about the average people
they’re always concerned about the exceptional yeah and and so you they the
good ones they hate the great ones yeah that’s exactly what you said and and
so you found yourselves in a in a battle yeah in a battle do you want to talk
about that at all yeah