From BYU Kicker to Congress: Jason Chaffetz on Hard Work, Service, and the American Story

when I ran for Congress. Fast forward to 2008, um I remember
talking to the Dukecaucuses and saying, “Hey, I’m going to send you my
brochure.” He said, “Well, my guess is everythingin it I probably
disagree with.” So, if you want me to endorse your opponent, I’m happy
to. That’s going to help you.You know, like he’s just laughing. But he, you
know what, he did believe and I do believe too, you need good people onboth
sides of the aisle. Welcome to the Know Your Ship podcastpresented by E-Hub.
I’m your host, Frank Dolce.I have a really special guest today. Do you want
to talk start talking and then see if people can guess who it is?Sure. Yeah.
I I’ve People would know from that. Do you think that was enough? They they
would know.Do you remember that old show that named that tune? Of course.
Yeah. You ask younger people,they don’t know what it is, but they should
bring it back, right? They just play like I can do that in seven notes,I can
do that. Yeah, I love that. I don’t know that my voice is that
distinctive.Very. Is it very Well, I think I would recognize it. The one and
only Jason Chaffitz. Thankyou so much. Can’t tell you how much we appreciate
you taking the time. Oh, yeah. To do this. This is fun. I love it. I was
tellingyou before that I was searching around for like the life and times of
JasonJafit’s podcast and I I couldn’t find it anywhere. So, I thought that
might be agood opportunity for us to do that here. Well, let’s go. If you’re
going to know your ship, you betterGood for you. You better typically I’ll do
it now. This will set the tone. typically in themiddle of this podcast
because we’re a shipping and logistics technology company and I don’t know if
you rememberthe old I think it was a Kmart commercial. Anyway, we we we ask
our guests, would you rather ship your pantsor ship your bed? Yes, that was a
that was a great commercial series. Yes, I remember thosethere. And not to be
I mean that was that was really good. Um there’s some other ones. The
otherone that I really liked, I think it was a Bud Light was um cut the
cheese when they have a cheese factory. They have acheese factory and they’re
like, “Who cut the cheese?” Oh, I cut the cheese. No, it’s my cut
the cheese.No, who cut the cheese? I cut that one. It’s just there was a time
when certainvendors of commercials would actually come up with some good
creative. They were so creative shows and Yeah.Yeah. And sometimes, but the
majority of them are so boring or so lame or sonow these days. The shipping
and the cheese caught my attention.Those are good. Those ingrained in my
brain. They Kmart also did a followup to that with theirgas. Oh, did they
just filling stations? And there was a big individual who was thebig gas man.
Who’s the gas man? The kids are saying, “Huh? Did you seethe big gas
man?” Oh, yes. I saw the big gas man. Yeah. Well, I Kmart needed a
little morehelp than just the gas man. That was okay. Well, let’s get into
the realLet’s get into the real nitty-gritty as they as they say here. Uh, so
you yougrew up We were just talking about that you it it lists on Wikipedia.
I feel like I know a lot of stuff about you,but it lists on Wikipedia that
you grew up in Los Gatos. Well, so my Wikipedia page, I haven’tlooked at it
in couple years. Last time I looked at I thought this is so not true. Some of
it’s partly true, but youknow, enough just to make it look like it’s
authentic, but some of this stuff about growing up Jewish and all thatlike,
yeah, that is such a like that’s not a thing. So, I was born in Lascatos. We
had a ourhome was in Saratoga and I lived there till I was about seven.
Uh-huh. And then we moved to Southern Californiaand then we moved to
Scottsdale, Arizona. Then I moved to Colorado and I could walk through that.
But you know,my dad my mom was actually um we grew up in an agnostic
household. I just kind ofgrew up sleeping in, playing a lot of soccer. Like
there was not a religioustint to my upbringing. So to suggest that I was grew
up Jewish, like we never celebratedHanukkah. I wasn’t around running around
wearing a yarmaka or anything like that. I just now I’m kind of cognizant of
whatit is. But growing up that I mean my dad’s side of the family is Jewish.
Ah my mom was more like Christianscientists. Mhm. I did read that.
Interesting. I did read that also. But I don’t The only thing I
rememberhearing about that is that you know she never saw a doctor growing up
and my momhad had an accident. I think it was in early high school where she
was on, you know, back in the day 50s or whatever,you’d be on these running
boards of those old cars and if she hit her head Oh jeez.And was unconscious
for like a week and um they never took her to a doctor.Is that because of the
they just believed the belief and but when I grew up I saw doctors when I
youknow I had head gear with my when you know we went to the dentist and the
orthodontist and you know so yeahfortunately we saw doctors along the way and
I got sore throats a lot and eventuallyI got my tonsils out. I did too. Do
they do that anymore? Yeah. Yeah. We had our kids do it.You did? Yeah. I
didn’t have any of mine. all of them. But but that’s still a thing. Yeah.
Yeah.All right. My wife’s here. I kind of have to look at her to see it. I
know. I’m I’m looking over the samebecause I don’t want to do anything. I
don’t mind saying something that’s mildly offensive to you. I don’t
reallywant to say anything in front of Well, but it’s just it’s the um Did
all of our kids get tonsils out? Justtwo of the three. You just got fact
checked. No, but I was right. I was right. Oh. In your career, how many times
hasthat happened? How many times do you get fact and is it accurate? Do when
you get fact checked, are you like,”Oh, dang.” Or are you like,
“No, that’s not even right. I can’t remember what I wore two days
ago.” Julie can rememberwhat we wore like I wore on my second date. Like
I I have a system at home, okay?When I wear a shirt, I I put it at the end.
So when it comes time to go to thenext day, I have to look at this third of
the shirts to choose from. And if onesits there too long, then it’s time to
go to the Desireette Industries and donate it cuz I’m not wearing it. Idon’t
like it. But if I don’t have that system, I’d probably wear the same shirt
and same pantsevery day like a Steve Jobs sort of thing. Sort of like a sixth
grader would. Like cuz in sixth grade I had my certainshirts and pants and
I’d wear them every day. My parents would be like, you know, it might be time
to wash that.I wonder if I should incorporate that now. I did the same thing
as a kid, like I had a favorite set pair of shoesand then I would wear those
shoes till they were completely worn out.Yeah. Yeah. Holes and everything
else. And then and then I didn’t want a new set of shoes. I can remember
this. But now mycloset is full of like I can’t I have so many shoes. Julie
makes me put my shoes in thegarage cuz they stink. And is that one of your
traits? Is that a feature that I stink a lot?No. Yeah. No, but my feet get
You know what? You get feet stink.I don’t have that. I bet you do. My all of
myNobody’s been brave enough to tell you. There is no man that I’m convinced
whosefeet don’t stink. All of my shoes are in the closet. There’s not one
pair of shoes in the Oh, my biking shoes are in the garage. Maybethat’s it,
right? Okay. Athletic shoes and all that. Yeah, golf shoes. What’s your
handicap, by the way?I got a few. Um, but in golf, it’s like 16.I want to be
better. It’s That’s not bad. It’s good enough to, you know, like not
embarrass yourself, butit’s bad enough that usually they want me on like a
scramble or best ball because I got a good scoreand I’m Yeah. And I’ll birdie
two or three holes. Yeah. But then I’ll hit a snowman on a coupleon several
others. Yeah. Yeah. Not several, but on many other a couple other birdie
birdie 88birdie. Yeah. You know that was a par three. You’re not supposed to
Hey, Right. Well, when you have to pull it out ofthe water twice, that’s what
happens. That’s how it goes. Well, so I do enjoy it.Golf. Golf. Yes. Yes, I
do, too. It’s maybe the most frustrating thing that I do as wellbecause
here’s what happens. Well, you’re good leading a good life then. Is you That
might be true. The you you you makea birdie. Yeah. And the next hole you make
an eight, right? Like how difficult is it to justmaintain like the birdie
part of golf? Why does it completely gooff the rails? Look, the the focus on
getting every stroke right and every club and I Idon’t know. I I love it.
It’s very relaxing to me. Some people get so whipped up and so frustrated.I
can I can do that and I I I don’t. For me, it’s relaxing. I’m out. There’s
green grass, fresh air.You have a much better hopefully a good conversation
going on. Mhm. Enjoying enjoyingI had a bad child. I’m like I don’t care. Oh
man, it drives me crazy. Let’s get back to your childhood.Yeah. Okay. So you
grow up golfing. Neither neither did I. I grew up playing I grew up
playingsoccer too. Yeah. I grew up kicking a soccer ball. You know in
Colorado, sorry. InCalifornia and Arizona you can play year round. Yeah.
That’s the best. And that I just did it. it. I owe sporta lot because I think
it kept me out of trouble. I learned a lot of life skills. UmI worry in our
society today that we cut kids off too early. And what I mean bythat is like
we’re in Utah and I’m sure there’s people I don’t care where you’re listening
to this podcast. It can be Arkansas, Texas, whatever. Kids love asport. Maybe
basketball, maybe lacrosse, maybe maybe it’s dance, maybe it’s music. But
then all of a sudden they getto high school and their competition goes
exponentially higher. And if you’re a basketball guy and you’re not 6’8 or67,
some of these big schools, you’re done. Yeah. And so, but I I owe sport so
muchbecause, like I said, I learned how to lose. I learned how I learned how
to win. I learned how to interact withpeople, how to have a coach, how to
have them get on my case and tell me to do some push-ups cuz I wasn’t
payingattention. How to be a part of a team. Be part of a team. And all those
lessons you learn. So whether it’s sport ordance or gymnastics or music or
whatever, I there’s value in insolo sports like a tennis. I played a lot of
tennis growing up. Lots in Arizona.Um I wish I had played golf. didn’t. But I
learned so much and I’m so glad that Istarted so early because I was pretty
good. You know, we won the state championship on our soccer team, you know,
that kind ofstuff. One of the proudest moments I have at home is when I was
10 years old.I was in Southern California and um it was the Adrien Walsh
juggling contestfor soccer and it was at the local mall. My parents didn’t
know. I had ridden mybike up and there was this contest and I entered and I
wasn’t preparing for this.No, I I think it was more spontaneous like I didn’t
even necessarily know when I went to this mall which is partly itwas mostly
outdoor mall you know Southern California you have outdoor malls. Yeah. And
they had this juggling. I thoughtsomehow I just got some gumption and I
thought I I’m going to do this. And I entered this contest and I won.
Ijuggled that ball 55 times in a row without it touching the ground at age
10.Wow. And I it gave me this degree of self-confidence. My wife Julie, who’s
sitting here withus, we watched a show recently and they made some really
valant or some reallyvalid points about youth today and all the pressures
they have on them with social media and just wanting to beliked. And I think
every kid innately wants to be liked and they need to findthat one thing that
they’re good at that they feel like, oh, I’m okay. They’renot going to be
praised and there, you know, social media is so such a bullying p
platform.But I, you know, this is back in the 70s, right? So I’m back in the
70s, but that for mewas sport. Like that was my validation. That was I get a
lot of confidence. I’d win, I’d lose, but I could deal with it.It’s socially
what I could talk about. We take trips, we did, you know, I just wish every
kid had something like that.But that but my growing up, I owe a lot of that.
So many memories and untold hours and my parents, you know, takingus to every
Saturday morning to play soccer in the foggyLos Angeles area, you know. Yeah.
I mean, the the sacrifice parents go through isunbelievable. Absolutely. Now,
so you have three kids. Did you also have yourkids in sport? Yeah. But I
think we did it. We were very good in trying not to force him todo it. Mhm.
Like, you know, our our son is a good example. He was playing sport,
playingsoccer, but when he got to high school, probably would could have, if
he really pushed it, maybe made the team. Heplayed a little bit, but somehow
someway he had an opportunity to come up before him with a friend, a neighbor
who wasgoing to get into debate, but he wouldn’t do it unless his buddy Max,
our sonMhm. would go do it. And so they did it together and it changed both
theirlives. They both ended up being now practicing attorneys. Oh, really?
But they, you know, you whenyou’re that young, you’re not thinking, oh, this
is a career move, you know, they just enjoyed it. Yeah. And there weren’t
many peopledoing it and they thrived at it. And so still part of a team. Part
of a team. Had to study, learn.Yeah. Got to have unique experiences, all this
stuff. I I feel like that we had in lotsof ways we had it a lot a lot more
simple life growing up. Yeah.And didn’t have the pressures of social media
and everything else bombarding usall the time. And I’m I wonder if there’s
there’s a way to manage that uhdifferently for our for our kids. Yeah. I
think, you know, they got to just turn it off at some point and andthey have
to recognize that there’s this whole subculture that isjust so a skew of
what’s important as opposed to that. That’s what worries me.I mean, it it’s a
great way to communicate. You can you have the world at your fingertips. You
can get all theinformation you want. You can also get all the bad and evil
that you want. Uhhuh. Just with nobody knowing,you know, and yeah, I think
the immense pressure, the instant gratification isjust off the charts. And
you worry that kids I I worry that kids lose the valueof work, having the
opportunities to work. I don’t care how much they make to go out and work for
somebody else.That’s kind of what being involved in team sport gives you.
Yep. But then also getting a job. I don’tcare, you know, I don’t care if they
pay him a buck 50 an hour to get the value of working and earning it
andunderstanding it. But people say, “Oh, well that you can’t do that. A
$150.” I’m like, “Yeah, yeah, you can.”Yeah. That’s not You’re
not going to do that your whole life, but when you’re 14 years old, I’m I
don’t have a problem with that.No, not at all. And that’s one of the lessons
you learn in sport is the sacrifice andhaving a goal and taking the time,
putting in the time to achieve that goal. I was listening to the podcast you
did with Maria BartoRomo. She was talking about that in her childhood. Yeah.
And her immigrant grandparents andparents and they put her like she they put
her to work. She worked hard. She worked hard.She was like the coat check
girl at the restaurant. Oh yeah. From the earliest age, she wasout there
hanging coats, you know, getting the coats at the end of the restaurant to
helping prepare the mealsto scrubbing the dishes. I mean, what I find when I
talk to really successfulpeople, they all have a common denominator and that
is they learned how to work early on and they enjoyed it.Yeah. They didn’t
just like, okay, I’m going to figure out how to get by with the easiest
amount of like no,just get just getting by. Yeah. Well, and that’s I think I
think I’ve done 200 podcasts, morethan 200. The number one thing I hear in
terms of I worked at it was the peoplewho say I worked at McDonald’s. Mhm.
And I think it’s so great, but I worry that whether it’s Subway or Jimmy
John’sor Jersey Mike’s like they get so many burdens and regulations around
them. Iwant that 12y old and that 13y old to go in there and work and you
know or youknow swig or whatever the place is. Yeah. It doesn’t matter. It’s
just they got to learn that value of work.Absolutely. Is that so would you
would you identify that in your own childhood?The way that you were raised is
this a value of hard work and Yeah. And my parents instilled in me ifnot you
who like you can do anything you want if you work at it.If you work at it
like you know it wasn’t like hey here it is like you want to be great in
soccer then you got to godo that. I read this book um Robert uh uh Rob O’Neal
he’s the guy who killedOsama bin Laden. He wrote this book called the
operator. Well, that’s such a good book and I hada chance to interview him,
do a podcast with him. Think about the guy killed Osama bin Lad. I mean, talk
about, you know, buthe talks about all of his SEAL team experiences. There
are two things that I still remember so vividly in his book,and they’re so
true. Number one was um if you want to do more push-ups, do more push-ups,
right? It’snot rocket scientist. You make it sound so easy. It’s like you and
he’s like, I wanted tobe a seal. So, in order to be a good seal at, he didn’t
know how to swim. So, he taught he figured out how to swim.And he’s like,
“If you want to do more push-ups, do more push-ups.” The other thing
that Rob said, and it’s more of anexperience, but it’s so true because it
sticks with you. He was talking about going through theBuds training, right?
Mhm. And it’s tough. It’s one of the toughest things in the world. Like 95
plus% ofthem drop out, right? And you’re talking about the world’s best
athletes. But he said when they showed up one day,they um they spent like an
hour or two watching the best of Shark Week on theDiscovery Channel. You
know, Discovery Channel, the best of Shark Week. They watched shark attacks
and sharkvideos for 2 hours. Then they put him in the van, took him down to
the water, and made him go on this multi-mile swim inthe ocean having just
watched. It’s just like, okay, put yourself mentally through the hardest
rigomearroll thatyou can and then prove that you can do it. Yeah. Without
breaking downand then you’ll be stronger for it. And that’s what they taught
these seals how to do. Imagine watching shark attacksfor two. No. And then
jumping hours. I’m I’m Okay, guys. And you know there sharks here. Yeah.
Anyway,and these guys would carry like Snickers bars in their they’d sneak
them cuz they like this is a huge longOh. So they would they would go stop
and they had to get their Snickers bars out and eat them in the middle of the
ocean.Have you have did you ever have you had a desire at all to do something
like that? No.Neither have I. No. I mean I feel like I’m fairly kind of an
athletic guy, butjumping out airplanes. No. Reading about the stuff that they
do, especially the SEAL training, it’s likeI have no desire to run 10 miles
in my boots on a beach. And it’s like timelike it’s not it’s not like a
15-minute mile. It’s like a 7-minute mile.Yeah. And then you got to carry
these big boats and you got to sit in the surfacepounding over you. Pacific
Ocean water is cold. 3 days no like sleep deprivation.Hey, I’m glad that
people are willing to do it cuz their world’s a better place for you. Do you
feel like you Yeah, that’s thetruth. Yeah. Yeah. Do you feel like just talking
to those guys that now you have you can also say that you’ve had
thatexperience? No, I just like tell me more. I’m fascinated that there are
people thatlook there’s things I think you do in your life that you get to
where you want to go because other people aren’twilling to do it. I think
that’s true in politics. I think that’s true in sports. I think that’strue in
work. like you you couldn’t have had the success that you had on the
ballfield and in business and everything else unless you work your butt off
and you know your stuff. Know your ship.You have to know your ship. This may
sound corny, but I think it applies.Yeah. My one when when my kids were
growing up, one of the things they used to love to do is in the evenings when
all thegolfers were off the local courses, then we’d go out and find golf
balls. Yeah. And I always told them the trickto finding a a golf ball was you
have to go look where nowhere no one else iswilling to go look and then
you’ll find all the golf balls. I think that’s kind of the same lesson.You
have to be willing and they have to be young enough and naive enough to know
not know that thereare snakes and spiders under those rocks. That’s right.
That’s why we send 21year-olds to war.They don’t know any better. They don’t
know. Yes. because I look at the what people went throughin World War I and
World War II, Vietnam and some of those others. Julie’s dad served overseas
in Vietnam and and uhwhat they went through if they knew what was ahead of
them. Well, let me ask you about that.Yeah. I mean, but they did it. They did
it. I do Do you think they didnot know? Like I I don’t think I look I have
never had somebody shooting a gun trying to killme, but if I play paintball,
my heart is racing because I don’t want to get shot by a paintball. I can
only imagine ifit’s true if it’s true. I say that with a smile on my face.
These people are dealing with life and death. And I don’tknow that when you
actually go to war in Afghanistan and and Iraq and those typesof things, if you
grew up, you may think you’re prepared for that, but when it’swhen the ship’s
hitting the fan, you got to you got to put I mean, it’s scary.People either
deal with it and look and we don’t deal with the mental health when they
return because a lot of peoplecan’t leave that. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I I
would I would say I would agree with that. Like you youmaybe you have some
concept of like I’m ready to go do this and then when you’re physically fit.
Yes. And and you get yourself allpsyched up and then you play football. You
played football. Yeah. You think you’re ready by playing high school and then
a sudden you playdivision one. It’s a whole another level. The speed is so
much faster. They hit so much harder.They’re all bigger. Bigger, stronger,
faster. Yes. Yeah. You just It’s really difficult to prefer. I always say
that the differencethe biggest difference between the levels is the speed of
the game increasesbusiness too. Yeah, like you can take anything and you can
apply it. I just those samelessons and that’s again the value of sport, but
it’s also the value of experience. Whether it’s your lifeexperience working
on your family farm or you know, but it’s the kid that’s sitting around
playing Xbox all daythinking they’re, “Wow, I’m ready for war.”
Like, no, you’re really not. I don’t think so. I don’t know what skill set
you offer,but Well, where it it has to be I I don’t want to leave your child.
We’re stillnot even out of your childhood yet, but I’ll keep bringing up all
these interesting things and and maybe we canget to this later, but I don’t
know that we society are doing enough to preparekids for for the for the
real. I mean, I I I’m not a huge proponent of what’shappening in the in our
education system currently. And that’s like that’s partof the in the issue is
that we’re not teachinglike what it means to be gritty, what it means to have
to struggle and what itmeans to sacrifice and do a hard day’s work. Like
that’s exactly right.I I grew up with all of those things. I my grand I had a
grandfather who servedin World War II. He would tell me those stories. I
mean, yeah, I think we’re just missing thatsomewhere. No, look, it look, it’s
different eras and people say, “Oh, it can’t be like that.” I grew
up in a family you nevermiss school. I don’t care how sick you are. You’re
going right. My dad was a teacher. So, I I mean, the days I missed school,
likeyou can count on like one maybe two hands. Like I I just never miss
school and like getout there, go do it, you know? and and sometimes they just
throw you out there and saying, “Yeah, just do it.” Iremember the
one of the very first jobs I had was that um Iback here’s a big part of my
growing up when I grew up. Um my dad would be the onethat woke me up in the
morning, wiggle my toes. I can still feel it, you know? I can still like I
still likeremember it. Hey Pali, he’d call me. Hey Pal, time to get up. And
so I’d get up, take ashower, and make my way out to to breakfast. And he
would make the breakfast, which in retrospect was my mom wasbetter cook, but
my dad made breakfast. So I always had a little fruit and had alittle bowl of
cereal and you know, anyway, it was very nice. But we would not be allowed to
watch television. Andback then we obviously didn’t have phones. So what he
would do is he putthe paper in front of me and at first I started reading the
comics. Yeah. Sure. Sure. As I got older, Istarted reading the sports. Then
he taught me how to read the the box scores and then it gravitated to such
that Iwas reading the front page and the local section and and so that’s kind
of how Ieducated myself about the world and what was going on because every
morning I just kind of grew up and then I hadthe expectation and I really
enjoyed reading the paper as I got ready. Now that was all of 10 minutes,
right? Butif you do it every day of your life, then it’s then it becomes a
habit, right? And so I remember one time we were inSouthern California or in
uh Scottsdale, Arizona, and it was starting to be summer, so I’mthinking,
“Hey, fun swimming, soccer.” Mhm. Late nights, it’ll be great.And
he said uh said, “No, you need to get a job.” I said, “Oh,
wait, wait,what?” He said, “See those wantads? go in there, start dialing,
figure outyou got to have a job. It didn’t take me too long because I found
one that was pretty good. And um so I called it andit was really cool cuz it
was going to be done at noon and I thought, “Ah, that’s perfect. That’d
be done at noon.”Yeah. What time did you This is Arizona in the summer
and I didn’t think through some of those otherquestions. So my dad’s like,
“Okay, what time do you need to show up? Where do you need to go? Uhhuh.
How are you going to get there?” youknow. So, I had to call the guy back
and he said, “I will come pick you up at 4:00 a.m.” And I’m
thinking, “Wait, Idon’t go to bed till like 1:30.” So, this is
going to be a real tight turn. Like, wait, what? What do I wear?8 hours. Oh,
you’re going to wear jeans, long sleeve shirt. Might want to bring a hat cuz
there’s going to be a lot of cactus out there. And that’s what I was. I wasa
gardener and in Arizona. And I said, “Wait a sec. He’s picking me up at
4.That’s why it’s done at noon.” Yeah, that’s 8 hours. That’s a lot.
Yeah.And I remember telling my dad, I said, “Dad, I can’t do this.”
Cuz I tried it for a little while.Said, “This is so hard.” And he
said, “Well, I’m okay with that.” And he said, “Uh, if you
want a different job, youneed to make yourself more valuable and you need to
go find another job. You can’t quit this one till you haveanother one.”
M and that’s when I started working for the General Cinema Corporation with
myshort sleeve white shirt, my slip-on bow tie and my powder blue jacket that
didnot fit right. I can see it now. My my polyester black pants. Yes.And I
was ripping tickets and doing all kinds of stuff. And Star Wars is a
bigthing. So, I popped a lot of popcorn and cleaned a lot of theatersand I
thought, “Yeah, okay.” And I made a little bit of money. I made
$2.88 anhour. Wow. And I remember going in and seeing up on the board that
you I’m like, “Wait,minimum wage is like 365. I make 2.88.” So, I
asked my dad. He said, “I don’t know. Go ask Mr. Hobie.” He was
themanager. So, I go ask Mr. Hobe. I said, “What’s up with that?”
and he said, “Well, we’re the entertainment industry,so we are exempt
from minimum wage requirements.” Is that true? And it’s true. And I just
said, “Oh,okay.” Oh, great. Now, fast forward. I was in the United
States Congress on the Judiciary Committee.Uhhuh. And the Democrats started
arguing in favor of minimum wage. And I told a veryabbreviated version of
that story. I said, “If you believe in minimum wage, how come carnival
workers don’t get it?How come people in the entertainment industry don’t get
those people need more protection than your average personwho’s working at,
you know, XYZ Corporation? Yeah. That conversation came to a screechinghalt.
Because the Democrats were so in tune with the entertainment industry,
theydidn’t want to do it like extras on movies. Do they make minimum wage?
No, they do not. And so they shut that wholething down. But you know what? It
was my life experience having gone through that that then made me valuable
having thatdiscussion in judiciary you know whatever it’s like what would
that have been 40 years later35 years later and it’s true today don’t tell me
everybody gets minimum wage because theydon’t I I don’t think there should be
a minimum wage I think you shouldI think you should get rid of it I think if
people if you don’t want to do the job don’t do the jobemployers have to
attract you they’re not attracting you that you didn’t have to do it. Okay.
So, coming out of your uh I meanthat’s a great lesson. I love that your dad
did that. Um and coming out what what are what aresome of the things that you
recognized about yourself as you were you weregrowing up? Did you did you
start leaning toward did you feel like hey Iwant to politics seems kind of
interesting to me or were you like no I never let go politics I justand your
well I think this is partly interesting in your story your dad wasnot
interested in politics well okay so the the funny footnote hereis my dad Yeah
my dad’s first wife they had aBest thing that ever happened to me is they got
divorced because my dad married my mom and had meand my brother Alex, a
younger brother, three years younger. But my older halfbbrotherther Mhm. we
shared the same father but had different mothers. His mother was endedup
being Kitty. Her name was Catherine but they called her Kitty. And she ended
up marrying a guy who was in politics, aguy named Michael Dukakus, who at the
time, I think he became the attorney general first and then hebecame the
governor of of Massachusetts. I think he was a three-term governor and then
he ran for president and he was theDemocratic nominee for president in 1988.
So look at 1988 and then in ‘ 87, whichis really ready to run. I’m like 20 21
years old. Yeah. and not totally sure where I’m at on thepolitical spectrum,
although after everything all the dust settled, they figured out I’m a very very
conservativeperson. But I helped out and I would travel and do things
withwith Michael Dukakus, who was democrat democrat so nice to me growing
up.That family could not have been nicer to me. And so when he was running
for presidentand you’re the Democratic nominee, I mean, it’s pretty serious,
right? So every once in a while the what they callthe body man, the person
who stays with the candidate through everything, that person needed a day off
every oncein a while. And so they would fly me in to be that person. They
just wanted somebody they trusttrusted and they didn’t have any weird agenda.
Yeah. And they flew me to Iowa and Californiaand Georgia and, you know, I was
doing all this weird stuff. And then I think they made me theco-chair to
caucus for president in Utah, which is kind of funny. I’m like, I’m 20
yearsold. Like, what are you talking about? You know, but I was playing
football. I wasn’t thestarter, but you know, they thought that was pretty
funny. And so I did a little bit of that. But then, you know, laterin life,
I’d meet Ronald Reagan and I changed my poll perspective politically. And
when I ran for Congress, fastforward to 2008, um I remember talking to the
Duke caucuses and saying, “Hey,I’m going to send you my brochure.”
He said, “Well, my guess is everything init I probably disagree with.
So, if you want me to endorse your opponent, I’m happy to. That’s going to
help you.” Youknow, like he’s just laughing. But he, you know what, he
did believe, and I do believe too, you need good people onboth sides of the
aisle. You do. You need good people with sincere hearts trying hard. And he
was could not havebeen more encouraging, even though I ended up being one of
the most conservative members of the United States Congress.Yeah. Well, I
want to ask you this, but I don’t want to get stuck on this because we’re
going to we’re going to get to it at some point, butyou you talk about good
people on both sides of the aisle. Yeah. It feels today likewe’re so separated
on on both sides of the aisle. Is that accurate or is that what we just isp