Why Turning Down Sales Built a National Brand

don’t do it. It It would be easy for me to come in and say, “Hey, I want a sale.” In this case, I think it would have been a black eye in their company. They realize, “I’m not just in it for the dollar. I’m here to actually help strategize with them and find out how to build their brand and at times turn down sales in order to help them do it.” Trust is established. Price becomes secondary and and they know that you’re you’re in it for them. Welcome to the Know Your Ship podcast presented by E-Hub. I’m your host, Frank Dolce. Sitting here with me today, Travis Stringham of Origin Brand Merch, formerly YBA, and

I made you start over because we were we started talking about the origin story and then I was like, well, no, this I think everyone will want to hear about this this interesting business. So, why don’t we Thank you for being here, by the way. Thank you for having me. Why don’t we start there? Why don’t we start at the origin? Yeah, in the beginning. Let’s Let’s do that. How does that sound? It sounds awesome. Which which by the way, I mean, it’s a good segue because after we went through the rebrand, we we named our business Origin because kind of our origin, right? Every business has an origin and our hope is to uh

help businesses get back to that point and kind of um let people know why you started this thing, right? Brand yourself that way. So, so origin went into a lot of the psychology of that. But my father-in-law started the business as a side job uh running out of the basement of his home back in 1978. And the idea was just to to put a handful of side jobs together every year to pay for church missions for his kids as well as to help pay for some family vacations. So, uh that that’s how it began. They bought a few heat press machines and um he was working for the Utah Jazz. And uh they had some

side jobs that they did. He he was previously with the YMCA, so they printed some t-shirts, had some t-shirt jobs. Uh they printed some rally towels for the Utah Jazz, and it provided a little side business. The most they ever did was about 30 to 40,000 in sales, but it made 8 to 10 grand a year. And and that uh supported, like I said, some of the church missions and family vacations and things like that. And and then in the late uh or sorry, early 2000s, they were looking to get out of it. My they they started to have grandkids at that time, right? some of my uh brother and sister-in-laws were having kids and

and they started have grandkids. My mother-in-law was running this uh business out of still out of the basement of their home. Um that last year in business, they did about 8,000 in sales. So, it was it was on its way out and she was going to let it go. They were just going to let it dissolve and and he was going to retire from the Jazz a few years later and it was going to be done. and my older brother, my my the oldest uh s my my oldest brother-in-law uh wasn’t happy with his current job and said, “Hey, maybe I’ll jump over and and give this a shot and see if there’s anything here.

Maybe I can resurrect this business and see what’s there.” So, in 2000, um he jumped over and did really really well. Mhm. Uh I used to be in commercial lending. I was in commercial lending for about 8 years. And uh worked with several local banks, several local banks, finished with Central Bank, uh which is a local community bank there in Utah County. And it was great. I loved that world. They’ve always said I’d go back to it. Uh but anyway, I joined in 2001 and I joined mainly for the uh opportunity to have something of my own, right? I thought that at some point I’d be able to own the business or have some piece

of ownership. So, I did it. I kind of took that leap and and joined in 2001. We did really well again. And we’ve kept going since. So, I’m now in my 26th year of doing this. So, it was 22 years. He started in 78. 22 years before your before they decided they were going to get out of it. Yeah. And your and your brother-in-law, were you brothers-in-law at that time? No. So, my wife and I got married in ‘9 Oh, sorry. So, we got married in ’97. So, yes, at the time that he took over the business. Yes, we were. Yeah. Brother-in-law. Gotcha. Okay. And then uh and then you jumped in 2001. 2001 out

of the You probably had a pretty nice banking career. Loved it. Loved it. I I did. I mean, people have always said you never get wealthy in banking. You know what I mean? You just don’t. the way to make money in banks is to switch banks, you know what I mean? Because that that’s kind of what you do. Um, but but it was a it was a great living. It was a comfortable living. I love Central Bank. I love the Packard family who owns it. Um, it was a very comfortable, good life. You get all the bank holidays, right? Think about all the the holidays you get off. So, it was banker’s hours. Yes. Banker’s

hours. It was a great life, though. And and as mentioned, I would go back to commercial lending in a heartbeat. It was Utah’s done very well. You know what I mean? in that time frame, commercial lenders have done well. We got a lot of uh building in Utah, a lot of businesses coming here. So, um but but yeah, I don’t I don’t regret making the change. Um but it hasn’t been easy, I’ll tell you that. Well, I I hope we’ll get into that. Uh switching careers like that and and you did get I mean, you did end up with something that you could build and something that was your own. Well, part of the the

ownership, but but that doesn’t that’s an enormous transition from the safety. Talk about the I mean being in a bank like that’s as safe as you almost as safe as you can get and then you completely switch careers. It was and you know at the same time sales is sales right? I’ve always said that. I mean it doesn’t matter what you’re doing whether you’re selling cars or furniture or you know uh promo and merch jerseys um loans right banks. To me, sales is sales and it’s talking to people and uh so yes, it it was kind of an industry change, but I don’t consider it a career change because I’m selling commercial loans and my

bank services previously, right? And I just all I’m doing is is switch kind of switching that a bit and selling something else. Switch the product. Yeah. Switch product. The the the foundation stays the same. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. There’s a lot of there’s a lot of stuff in the origin story. Uh, one question I had is what was your father-in-law doing as his full-time job when he started doing these side kind of the side gigs? So, previously worked for the YMCA in Florida and uh took a job with the YMCA of Salt Lake City. So, he was up here. Uh, that that’s what brought them from Florida to here. He was working at a YMCA

there. The YMCA of Salt Lake City recruited him here and he had this dream to take this YBA, which stood for youth basketball association across the nation. He wanted to start a YBA program, a youth basketball association across the nation. That’s his goal. That was his idea. That was his idea. He came up with that and and you know, probably with working within the YMCA had this thought about taking making this successful programs back there in Florida uh that were YMCA programs. He also worked for the YMCA over in Hawaii and um so they moved around a little bit. Uh Washington as well, but he was very successful building these youth programs. And so he

just had this dream of of building YBA and taking it across the country. Did he determine at that point like, well, I’m going to start these I’m going to start this organization and I want to take it nationwide and there’s an opportunity to, you know, put t-shirts on these on these kids and stuff. So that became kind of the side the side business. Yes. Yeah. I mean, reversible jerseys were kind of just coming into the scene, right? I’m going back to 78. So some some didn’t have the money to even afford reversible jerseys. So back then it was a lot of t-shirts. Um but but yeah, so the idea was to to to he came

up here, accepted the job with with the YMCA and he still had this side dream of building YBA. Um he might have wanted to do that through the YMCA’s uh as well as independently but um the Jazz were were just getting big, right? Larry Miller had purchased it recently and and um he took this idea to Larry Miller. the YBA. Uhhuh. Took YBA to Larry Miller and said, “Hey, here’s my dream and I want to work with the WCK departments and maybe some of the YMCA’s and I want to build this program.” Um, and uh, will you pay me x amount of money if we if we, you know, do something like this? And Larry

said, “Hey, that’s a that’s a great idea. Uh, we’re going to actually bring that in house and we’re going to call it Junior Jazz.” So, we’re going to bring it under the jazz umbrella, call it Junior Jazz. And it it blew up. Literally blew up. I mean, the Jazz were obviously new to the scene in Utah. Um, they were very exciting. Um, obviously Larry looked at it as an opportunity to build his younger fan base and future fan base and to this day it’s still the largest junior professional league in the nation with over 60,000 kids. So they’re they’re a huge program. That’s enormous. Well, and that I mean I never knew that story. I

didn’t know where Junior Jazz are. That’s the actual origin story. Yeah. Yeah. And so your father-in-law ran that program within the jazz organization for for many many years. Yeah. Right up until the early 2000s. Okay. And but but there was a little conflict because he was producing shirts and jerseys on the side, but then working inside with the Jazz, correct? He he couldn’t he couldn’t do that. He couldn’t do his own, right? Conflict of interest. He couldn’t do the own, you know, his own jersey. So we had so he had to outsource that piece of business. Okay. there was some business he was able to hold on to from from former YMCA’s he’d worked with

and other leagues that he had picked up over the years. So that’s what continued to run the side business. That’s what continued to run YBA. But really at that point the big YBA dream was kind of dead. You know what I mean? He was all in with Junior Jazz. He was working full-time doing that. So kind of the nationwide vision was dead. Um but he was building that dream of within within the jazz program and and that’s Junior Jazz. Gotcha. Okay. Well, that’s an very interesting very interesting story. Okay. So, now tell me what is happening at this point with YBA, the t-shirt, jersey manufacturing. Yeah, great question. I mean, so, so early 2000s, we

took it over and we really just went all in on basketball and and jerseys. Uh, that’s kind of what the business was. The screen print shops that we had contracted with were already set up for it. So, we really went in on all jersey or all jerseys for about for about 10 years. And um the jersey market got a little more competitive. Uh keep in mind, we’re going after YMCA’s and wreck leagues. So, you’re going after nonprofit programs to make a profit, right? Any if if I was uh if I came to you with a business model that said, “Hey, I want to go after nonprofit programs to make a profit.” I you know, you

might say that might not be the best investment, right? But but that’s what the business was. We doubled down on it. We were finding some success at it. So, we just stayed with it. Uh we picked up some other junior professional programs uh in the process, the Golden State Warriors, um the Phoenix Suns. Uh now we work with the Oklahoma City Thunder, the Memphis Grizzlies, San Antonio Spurs. We do some business with the Orlando Magic. So, over the years we picked up some uh a lot of other good junior professional leagues and we’ve worked off off and on with other ones. Uh but as the as the business grew, we started to realize that there

was a lot more business out there than than just jerseys. And so 2010, 2012, we really started to get heavy into corporate um just corporate promo and merch. Uh I I I don’t like to call it basic t-shirts and hats and things like that because to me it’s much more than that. But um that’s the basic explanation of it, right? Promotional and promo and merch products for businesses for branding purposes. So we got heavy into that. Um, as that continued and and as we as we started to grow that piece of the business, we would have a lot of those businesses and we started to work with some very large companies that would say, “Hey,

what does YBA stand for?” And you can imagine where this is going, right? Like um I’d cringe a little bit. Business your brand apparel. I we actually thought about making stuff up because it was a little bit embarrassing. I mean, from from a business story, it was not good for branding. It wasn’t good for identity, but it was, you know, I’ I’d through, you know, hesitantly I would say youth you youth basketball association, but let me let me explain that. You’d have to explain it. And it’s like, what’s what’s a youth basketball company wanting to do my thousand polo shirt? You you know what I mean? It just didn’t match. So, we had some other

I’m in business with I at that time I was in business with three brother-in-laws. Two other brother-in-laws joined the business later. And uh there was some strong opinions of, hey, we don’t need to rebrand. people know us by YBA. Let’s just leave it. So there was a there was a series of time where that gosh seven to eight years we fought that really um yeah very long time and finally back in 2017 18 we thought okay we need to we need to make this split. We need to we need to kind of uh act like some big boys here and and and and make this it’s going to be a tough decision because people know

us this way but we we got to make this change sooner than later. Both divisions were growing both the sports division and the corporate division. And so finally we separated them. So YBA is is a parent company now. It’s in the background. It’s hidden. Um kind of the umbrella company, but uh our sports division is called Team Built and our corporate division is called Origin Brand Merch. Gotcha. And are you That’s where we’re at today. Are you involved in both sides? Are you I am only because I’m one of the owners and I’ve had I’ve had accounts for that many years. So I’ve had sports accounts for many years. Um I run the Junior Thunder

program. Uh I run some some uh some other club programs and and other large YMCA programs, but only because of the amount of time I’ve been there. Uh and then I’m I’m primarily in the corporate world and a lot of my future business is in is in that corporate space. But as for hiring purposes, we have reps now that focus on one or the other and that’s it. They’re either sports or they’re corporate. Gotcha. Okay. You went for about 10 12 years solely focused on sports. still focused on sports before you decided you made that decision to go into corporate. Okay. So, I want to I want to hear about that story is as you’re

going along in the sports world and you’re getting these nice accounts with some of these professional basketball teams and how did that come up? Where what is the genesis of hey maybe we should look at a different side of the business? Yeah. this next piece. Mhm. Um we ended up buying a shop which which is uh it was a unique um decision and there’s people that have come to me today and said, “Hey, we’re thinking about buying a shop.” And my advice is don’t because it’s not a shops aren’t money makers. They’re they’re lost leaders. But we started to pick up some big accounts and the shops that we were contracting through were were getting

a little bit late on turn times. One of the things you can’t be late on is is a game, right? like you can’t not have jerseys for a game. So we we made the decision um to purchase a shop to purchase a print shop um a production facility where you could manufacture where we could Yeah. Not necessarily manufacture manufacture but produce the item. So yeahur getting shirts or something from somewhere and then you’re Yes. doing the Exactly. We’re controlling production and we we started sourcing somewhere in the middle of that too. um sourcing jerseys, blank jerseys that we could turn around quicker and sell at a discount and stuff like that. So that that was

kind of a fun story and we’ve we’ve really tripled down on sourcing and it’s been a huge asset to our business since then. Um but yeah, we we were we needed to control our production. We needed to control our turn times. I mean, when we tell a customer that we’re going to deliver on something, we had to be able to do that. So, we bought a shop and uh we started controlling our own production. And it was a great decision. I I I don’t regret the decision. It was a great decision at the time. I I still think it’s a good decision. If it wasn’t, we’d sell it. A lot of my competitors come to

me and actually ask us to print for them. So, um, but it has allowed us to keep uh control of our production and and delivering on customers and delivering to customers, telling them that when something’s going to be done, it’s going to be done and it’s on us. And if it’s our if if hey, we make mistakes and and and that’s our fault, too, and we can own it because we did it and it’s ours. And I’d rather have the control over that than kind of turn that over to somebody else. Um, so yeah, we made that decision earlier on. Um but it got to a point where after buying the shop there was downtime

and um there we started working with schools as well. So when you think about that schools do both jerseys and they do corporate. Do you know what I mean? We do jerseys for the sports teams and we do corporate for their staff and faculty apparel. Are you talking mostly elementary level high school? Everything elementary elementary um all the way up even Yeah. Even some junior colleges. Um, so, so yeah, we were doing both jerseys and and then staff staff and faculty apparel for both of those. And I think that through that hybrid approach, it was like, gosh, why are we not doing more corporate? Do you know what I mean? Like, there’s obviously a demand

here. People want this and need this. Um, and then from there, we started talking to a few of our friends and it kind of took off and it’s it’s really taken off ever since. So corporate is definitely I mean in my opinion um even though our sports does really well and uh during co during some other things it was funny how uh the ’08 crash right business has stopped spending money. So it’s been interesting how when corporates’s done bad sports has done well and vice versa. So it’s really a a unique thing that we have. I don’t know a lot of businesses that have two completely different divisions. And believe me, it it has it

has presented us with more challenges than we want as far as production styles, trends, marketing efforts, sales employees. I mean, you think about that. They’re really two different businesses. It’s presented a ton of um trials, uh and unnecessary stress in the business. And at the same time, it’s saved us. Like, it literally saved us at times. Yeah. So, is one area of the business more uh does it produce more than the other area of the business? Are they about to corporate but not much? Yeah, corporate but not much. We’ve been fortunate to live in the state of Utah, too, right? I mean, Utah’s exploded in in [clears throat] the last 20, 30 years. Sure. Um,

yeah. I mean, we moved here in the early 90s and it I think it’s exploded since then, but uh and we’ve been fortunate for that. Some good businesses have come here. We work with some very good businesses and so yeah, we’ve been the beneficiaries of that. So, do you work mostly? Well, obviously not on the sport side because you’re with several other teams, but corporatewide, are you mostly Utah or are you spread out throughout the US? Good question. Spread out. Uh most of the business is core here in Utah, but we’re we’re across the country. And then we ship globally. So, um we work with companies like formerly Beachbody, right? They’re they’re now body. Um

so, we work with them. They ship global. We work with some mega churches. They ship global. SunRuns a huge solar company. They ship global. So yeah, we sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh ship global but mo we do business in almost all 50 states. You just mentioned megaurches. Let me ask you a question. What types of items are you producing for megaurch? It’s fascinating. Like I I never knew that this world existed um as far as like the megaurch merch world, but

it’s huge. Uh it’s huge. You’ve got a lot of megaurches out of the mid Midwest. Yeah. Texas, they’re big. Um, I mean, they’ll have more people at weekly congregations than we can comprehend. Like, it’s it’s it’s crazy, but it’s it’s it’s awesome, right? They’re preaching the preaching the word of Jesus, which is which I’m all in favor of. But, um, they are on the front end of merch, believe it or not. They’re pushing us um with styles, trends, colors, patterns, decoration types, everything like that. um their whole the whole vision behind the megaurch merch is that cool merch prompts questions and questions prompt invites. So you’re at a grocery store and you’re wearing uh some

sort of a t-shirt or a hoodie or a hat that is really good-looking you that that has some it it stands out because it’s different. Um and I think that’s where we specialize is different. We like to do different. Anybody can go do promo and merch, right? You can go to 100 different companies and get promo and merch. I like to do different. I like to be kind of wild and weird and and and do cool merch. But the idea behind the megaurch is that you’re if you’re wearing something like that, somebody’s in, you know, behind you in line at the grocery store and they might ask you a question about it. The question then

prompts an invite to church. So they use it as a marketing effort. Yeah, I love it. What are the differences between designing for the corporate side and designing for the sports side? very very different and and it presents some real challenges because when I say that we like to do different we’ve got to stay on top of our game right it would be very easy to kind of fall behind and and just kind of go in line with the crowd and just like corporate I mean it is moving so fast it’s it’s funny because apparel rotates every 25 years so rule general rule it rotates every 25 years so for example the jean shorts that

we wore back in the 90s early 2000s don’t tell me they’re your kids. Oh, they’re back. If you go to the high schools or colleges, they’re back. And they’re the big baggy jean shorts. I I have a buddy of mine that’s 53 and he said his his kid he held on to some of his jean shorts and his son that’s a senior in high school came and raided his closet and took his jean shorts to wear them to school. Yeah. So, it’s back. Um, wearing jean shorts is kind of a traumatic timing. I think that’s not a good look. Not a good look. Girls might be able to pull it off. Guys can’t. Okay. So,

it’s like the short short things, right? Like, yeah. Hey, girls can pull that off, guys. Don’t try doing that. Well, that’s another that’s another trend that is coming back is like these shorter shorts for men. And I I’m like, not where’s the 9 in inseam? I can’t do these that I I can’t do it either. And I see guys at the gym and I’m like, “No, no, I’m sorry, man. You could You’re not selling it.” No, but yes, I mean styles are constantly moving, constantly changing. And so, um, I mean, even sometimes as owners, you take a step back and you kind of just go along for the ride. We we’re not that way. We’re

very engaged, very involved. I take a lot of pride in that. Very OCD with what we do. Um, so we stay up on that. Styles, trends, colors, fashions, fabrics, um, everything like that. And if if you’re on top of that, you’ve got to stay on top of that in both industries. Yeah. Uh, so we very closely watch Nike and Under Armour, um, and Adidas, Puma, right? Some of those big sports companies, and typically we’re trailing them, but but not far, not not far behind. But normally we keep a really close eye on what they’re doing. Mhm. And then try to come out with um products and fabrics. We have very good sourcing channels across the

country, especially in our in the jersey world. And so, um, for example, Nike just came out with a a a jersey fabric about three months ago. We’re already producing that through our factories and, um, providing that to club leagues and and things like that. So, we’ve got to stay on top of those trends. I mean, it moves really really really fast. It Well, I the reason I ask is it’s it’s interesting because in the sports world, you you have the New York Yankees and that uniform is never going to that jersey is never going to change. Like, that uniform’s iconic. It’s classic. You have the Los Angeles Dodgers. That jersey, that uniform, the color scheme,

that’s never going to change. And it shouldn’t like it’s Well, I I don’t know, maybe it should. It’s just so iconic. And so, but but maybe that doesn’t bleed down into the the lower divisions and to the youth leagues where they want something that’s more in line with whatever is considered in style today. But then there’s other professional teams that have gone, you know, way like their the colorways and everything that they’re doing with the the jerseys and the different helmets and the like, you know, Oregon of course is the is the university everyone associates with 372 uniform combinations and everything like that. So where I guess in the sports world what you’re telling me

is it’s not static like the New York Yankees, the Los Angeles Dodgers, Chicago Cubs, whoever the iconic team may be, you have to stay as in modern times as everything else. Yeah. And and I think that you’d find that even in your examples of like the Yankees and the Dodgers, even though jerseys have stayed the same or patterns have stayed the same, fabrics haven’t. They fabrics have come a long way. So when and think just think about the fabrics you wear, right? I mean, spandex has changed everything, right? It’s made all our lives better. Um, but but spandex has been huge uh into jerseys and so something that moves with you and that’s comfortable. I

mean, I know MLB got in trouble. When was it last year? Cuz they had that the transparent jerseys. Didn’t Nike do those transparent white jerseys? But wasn’t that unintentional? Oh, I think so. Yeah. But but that’s unfortunately that that’s my world, right? I mean, and when you go with white, white can be transparent. If it’s too thin of white, you’re in trouble. Big trouble. So, yeah. I mean, white, you’re always gambling with white, but and we we know to be careful with that. I’m shocked that that got through Nike somehow. I mean, sounds like a huge quality control issue. I don’t know how it was missed, but nonetheless, fabrics are huge in that sports world.

People want to be comfortable in what they play in. Also, think about the sizing, right? I mean, back in the day, baggy. Think about like the Babe Ruth era, right? The jerseys were baggy, the pants were baggy. Everything has come now to form fitting. a lot more form fitting everything. Yes, we’re seeing it go back and forth a little bit, but spandex has allowed it to be form fitting and still comfortable cuz without the spandex now you’re restricted and can’t move and so yeah, but we’ve got to I mean even when you think about fabric compositions and the blend between polyester and spandex, it can really affect a jersey in many different ways. So, we’ve

got to stay on top of those things. Well, it is an interesting it’s an interesting business and it’s interesting that you like you said you have these two divisions. I think I like the me one of the messages that I’ve that I’ve come across in your on your website and some of the stuff online is um and you said it earlier like don’t just do something to do something. In fact, you have a list of how many of the most boring promotional products you saw that that’s cool. Thank you for seeing that. I tell our marketing guys. Well, it’s the minute that you look at that the list of you’re like, “Oh, why did I

do that?” Because it’s so true. Like I, you know, u lip balm. You pick it up at a show and it’s one of the first things that you throw away. Yeah. Or a cheap pen. It’s like maybe you use it during the show and then it’s like this. I don’t want to keep, you know, you get you get rid of it. What were some of what are some of the other items on that list that you should that are like the most boring? Mugs, water bottles. Um, right. I mean, I could I could go on and on about basic boring merch. I mean, and every every bit of merch can be boring. And I got

to tell you, I could go on forever about this cuz I’m very I’m passionate about it. It’s my world. It’s my industry. But I also believe it personally. Like, as a consumer, I use these products, right? As do you. So, um, it it it’s fascinating to me how much money businesses waste. Really, I mean, you you you said it perfectly. You go to these trade shows, everybody does chapsticks and and I don’t know about you, I got a certain chapstick. It’s the only one I’m using. Uh, for some reason, I still grab the free one because it’s free. I’m the same way. I I It’s free. So, I’m like, I’m Hey, I’m taking it. Maybe

my kids can use it. I don’t know. I grab the pens. I come home with 10 pens and and I it just like you said 99% of the time it goes in the garbage and every business knows that. I mean I don’t like to use the word swag. I hate the word swag because I to me it’s irreverent. It’s unprofessional. I just don’t like it. But swag stands for stuff we all get. Stuff we all get. That’s what it stands for. So and and really that’s what that that’s the world that we’re in. But as I look at it I’m like man we didn’t you didn’t start your business to be average. You didn’t start

your business to be boring. Um, you never you never intended it for it to be a normal product or service. You did it to be different, to kind of be exceptional, to give something to the to to the market that we didn’t previously have, right? That’s why you started your business. Why would you go back and brand it in a boring way? It’s it’s crazy. But we do this and thousands of businesses do it and it it’s absolutely amazing to me. And I’m not I’m not um opposed to the ordinary. Practical is good because we use practical. You use pens. Pens are good. We use them every day. Yeah. But if you’re going to do

a pen, do the coolest pen out there. Do a pen that matches your industry and your product. One of our customers is um uh Reef Capital. Awesome customer by the way. So they do the Black Desert development down in St. George. They’ve got Marcella. We love those guys. They’re awesome. Jared and those guys. Yeah. And that’s a fantastic Well, they’re doing amazing things with Black Desert now. They’re opening up I think they’re opening another 18 at Black Desert and they’re doing the Marcella development up around Park City. I mean that that’s a really great one in Virginia, Hawaii. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Good for you working with those. Well, thanks. It’s it’s a privilege to work

with them and we work with some other big brands as well, but they’re they’re so fun because when you think and and theirs is project specific. So when you think Black Desert, when you think of a pen for Black Desert, okay, cuz again, we use pens. So great, let’s do pens. But already I’m thinking, can we get a black lava rock pen? Can we get a red sandstone pen? If we can’t, can we get something that’s in an earth tone? Some sort of earth tone, naturistic, right? Like we’re we’re dealing with that beautiful southern Utah property in that area. So, it’s it do something that matches the brand and that somebody’s going to take home

and says, “Okay, I’ve got this pen. I for some reason I can’t get rid of it. I cannot get myself to throw it away.” And we all have the merch that we’ve done that with, right? Where where we take it home and there’s some stuff we throw away and there’s some stuff we hold on to. Why do we hold on to it? Well, because they’ve given us a cool enough reason to want to hold on to it. There’s something about that piece of merch that that is cool enough where I’m like, “Eh, I’m going to hold on to this one.” You know, this this is kind of cool. I I don’t want to live without

this. Well, the design is certainly important, but the quality is important as well. I mean, you could you could go to a show and and grab two different t-shirts. And I, you know, I wear t-shirts all the time, but you grab one t-shirt with a brand on it and it’s, you know, it’s the box t-shirt. It’s not very comfortable. Doesn’t fit, which is back in right now, by the way. It’s back in. Well, well, that t-shirt’s going to the, you know, the Salvation Army or the DI. That’s the DI pile. And then you get the shirt that’s fits well and it’s super comfortable and it’s, you know, it’s kind of a cool logo and you’re

like, probably going to hold on to that. Yep. And it it can end up being a go-to shirt, right? When we hold on to that for years. So, and it it just says something about the company. It says something about the business. It says something about the company when you when you have a quality item. Yeah. I was working with a customer last week. Literally just last week. It’s a huge home builder in the state of Utah. quality custom multi-million dollar homes, beautiful homes. And they said, “Hey, we’re we’re we’re going to this event. Um, we just became a sponsor of this company and and all the investors are coming into town and we want

to give them something. We want to we want to send them home with a gift uh to to advertise our company.” And I’m like, “Awesome. That’s great. What’s your what’s your budget per item?” They said, “Well, we’re tight right now. We just did a sponsorship under under $7 an item.” And I said, “Don’t do it. Don’t do it.” It it would be easy for me to come in and say, “Hey, I want a sale.” Do you know what I mean? I could make this sale and I can give a $7 item for 300, 350 people, but I’m like, “Don’t do it.” You could probably use like uh like the chapstick, pen, vat of paper for

under $7, but that’s not memorable. You you’ve got these these these are investors. These are people that already have money. They’ve already got everything. There’s there’s nothing you’re going to give to them that they don’t already have. Mhm. So, what what are you going to give to them that’s special enough that they’re going to want to hold on to it and for under $7? And that’s why I told them like, listen, I’m trying to do the best thing for your company, don’t do anything. And and they didn’t. I said, “Save your money for the next time around to for for that group.” And we like to say, “Bait the hook to suit the fish.” So,

whatever whatever project it is, whatever group that it’s going to, um, do the product that that is specific for that group and caters to that group. In this case, I think it would have been a black eye in their company, right? It would have been we build these beautiful multi-million dollar homes and and you guys are major investors, but we’re going to give you something cheap. It just doesn’t match, right? Yeah. So, I mean, we try to help businesses that way to the point that I I said, “Don’t do the sale. I turned down the sale to not like they went somewhere else. They appreciated it and said thank you and whatever and they agreed,

but yeah, in that case, just just don’t do it.” So, but yeah, I mean, we we like to really think think about the trade. We talked about trade shows. Mhm. Think about the amount of money a company spends at a trade show. Mhm. two to three grand just for a vendor booth. Think of the amount of time in in employee cost. Maybe they’re flying there, a couple employees, the setup. Um you’re you’re probably into an event five to seven grand. I would say that’s maybe on the low end, right? On the low end, for sure. And you’re going to but but what you’re going to give to people to remember you buy after spending all

that money is a 57 cent pen. Like like really? I mean, um, I hate to say it, but you gota, one of our slogans is merch smarter. So, we like help businesses merch smarter. You you got to make yourself memorable. You’ve got to give them a reason to want to think about you. Don’t spend that amount of money and leave them with a a 60cent pen. I was uh working with a guy that um here locally does office furniture and I went up to one of his tournaments somewhere. We were at a golf tournament somewhere. He gave out a pitch fix divot repair tool. It’s the switchblade divot repair tool. Yeah. And and guys play

with that as much as we use them. We probably play with them more than we use them, right? Cuz come on, who’s hitting the green? But but but they’re a toy. The the point being though that I got this and they’re fairly expensive. They’re a it’s an $8 divot repair tool, right? You can go with the cheap one for 50 or you can pay the $8 one, which is which is a very nice divot repair. But two years later, I’m still using that tool. And so, and mind you, I have like 10 of them, but I cannot get myself to throw these divot repair tools away because I’m a golfer and I like it, but

also because they’re cool. The the beauty of that though is that now these businesses that spent the $8, I mean, the whole purpose of of of any sort of of of promo piece or apparel piece is to get people to look at it after the event to remember you as the business. And I called this guy and told him like, it is 2 years later and I just used this divot repair tool and I’m thinking about your business. when I think of office furniture, you are the first person that comes to mind. So, when you think about a return on investment, the guy got his I mean, and he’s continuing to get it 2 years

later. So, that’s the idea of it. You’ve got to make merch enough and different enough um to make people want to hold on to it. And not only that, I we help you do that. I don’t think it’s your job to have to study the merch world or the promo world. There’s millions of pieces of merch. There’s billions of pieces of promo. you don’t know what’s necessarily new and trending and popular and what’s coming out the next three months or six months or year. I do. I’m in that world and I stay up on on what’s brand new. So, we like to go in and be different. Not only would we like to to to

tell businesses that we do things different, but I like to help you and show you how. Um, so so when you come to me, typically we’ll have a conversation about your event. Yeah. where it’s at, if there’s a theme of the event, what’s the purpose of it, and then from there, what’s your budget, how many items are you looking for, and and rather than me giving you a a phone book of of a million different products for you to look through, you’ve got your own job to do, right? You’re busy doing your own stuff. That’s my job to know that stuff. So, what I’ll do is send you after having that conversation, I’ll send you

an email with a link of 10 to 15 products, right? So, we totally just filter that down that is catered toward your event or or whatever it is that you’re doing. and then you’re looking for 10 or 15 products rather than millions. I love it. I love the I love the focus on the customer and I love the focus on aligning the event with the product with the messaging uh and trying to and trying to create something that’s lasting. So, let me ask you this question. Your brothers-in-law did uh your wife is the sister. Yes. The way better looking sister. Yeah. How about that? I like to make sure my brother-in-laws know that. They’re going

to listen to this, so they need to know that. They should. I don’t know. Maybe maybe we should have the brothers-in-law in here sometime, too. They They can tell theirs their side of the story. But tell me what like how do you manage what is the biggest challenge that you face and and how do you manage that those challenges and how have you done that for 26 years? Yeah. Well, having four owners alone when you think about that. It we’ve at times called it the foreheaded monster. Um over the years we’ve always it it it change is tough. You kind of think that we’ve always got to do what we’ve always done cuz that’s kind

of what brought us success before. But you do that long enough and make enough mistakes to realize no, you’ve got to adapt. You’ve got to change. You’ve got to keep moving forward and doing things different. And um those lessons weren’t easy. A lot of times they came over the course of many years and a lot of money wasted. Uh so we’ve we’ve learned some hard lessons along the way. Um working with family I found that uh you have to have very very clear and verbal expectations and accountabilities. Every one of my brother-in-laws, including myself, is very very different. Um there have been times where it’s gotten heated and contentious uh in meetings. Sometimes I felt

like we’d go four and six hours and come out with no decisions. Um because of the different opinions uh in the course of all that, one of the brothers-in-laws, the the oldest one that that originally jumped decided he wanted to take an early retirement uh which which turned out well and he just decided to do that last year. So now it’s just three of us um that that are running the business. But we found uh very a ton of communication, overcommunication, um expectations of each other and accountabilities uh for what you’re doing because oftentimes owners can just say, “I’m an owner. I don’t need to do that.” Yeah. I’m going to I’m going to sit

back. That’s for the employees to do. Um so so making those changes and and being accountable to each other and also uh being accountable to the point of of being honest and transparent with each other too about focusing on strengths saying listen we’ve had you I I used to be over marketing and I have a passion for marketing I love brands and colors and I I see things like that just in my mind but I wasn’t staying up on marketing do do you know what I mean? I I didn’t know the latest trends in marketing and the way the internet’s moving and you know digital advertising and stuff like that. So, I mean over time

I still tried to hold on to this marketing piece and about 10 years ago they came to me and they’re like you need to be done right you need to be done and um after again it had been years leading up to that but I finally was able to let it go and thank goodness because we’ve moved ahead way quicker as a business because I did that. So what I found more than anything being an owner uh especially over time I think as an owner you need to get out of the way. You got to get out of the way. I we we hindered our growth so much because we wanted to be involved. We

wanted to to think that we were staying engaged and that we were making these decisions to help move the business forward. But unfortunately, a lot of the the things you built the business on are old. Things move fast. I had some great advice uh that that a that a buddy gave me and it took me 10 years to finally believe it, but he said, “Travis, you’ve got to you got to you got to replace yourself. You’ve got to find somebody to replace you. And and what you’ll find is that because they’re younger, because they’ve got a little more energy, because they’ve they’re they’re a little more knowledgeable in areas you’re not, they’ll not only replace

you in the areas that you think you need to remain involved, they’ll do it way better than you did. And again, after 10 years of fighting that, I finally said, “Okay.” And we all did that as as an ownership group, and it has been phenomenal. So, I think that owners a lot of times are they’re in the way. That’s just my personal opinion. Um, it’s hard advice. Believe me, I understand it. I’ve spent wasted millions of dollars standing in the way. Uh, thinking that I could I could be that change. But sometimes you’re not the answer. Well, it’s just hard to let go of your baby. It is. Yeah. And again, I’m still involved, right?

I’m still engaged. But there’s some things that you’ve got to like you. Again, as owners, we focus on our strengths and we kind of really went to that position. I love talking to people. I love working with key accounts. And so, that’s where they have me. But I’m not involved in the HR. I’m not involved in the day-to-day of the business. I’m not involved in marketing, right? I’m focusing on strengths and I’m accountable. I’m accountable to my business partners and we hold each other accountable and so I think I think that’s how we’ve been able to make this work. Yeah. You mentioned the name change as maybe a point of contention. It’s you said it

took several years to to go from YBA to to where you are today. Yeah. Tell me about that process of that name change. And I’m just I’m curious about this because I’m sure that people who are listening to this podcast, they’re dealing with these issues as well. And so maybe a little insight from you would be helpful. You bet. Uh it really is a great question. Um cuz I think that owner to this day would would disagree with it. Would still be YBA. Would still be YBA. Yeah. But that is um they’re interesting dynamics. So, going back uh that this this oldest brother-in-law of mine um had the largest account in the business by far.

It was a big account, a very very very large account, nationwide account. It was 35% of our business, 40% of our business. It was a significant business. He swung a very big stick. Mhm. Right. Not only being the oldest Mhm. dominant red personality. Oh. Um that guy had a had a large account, brought in a lot of money to the business, and he hates marketing. He just he just disagrees with marketing. He thinks it’s too um subjective. You can’t really track anything. You can’t measure it. And so there’s just nothing to it. Um and you know, I I see it completely opposite. I think sometimes you can maybe do a little too much with marketing,

but but um I I’m a I’m a huge advocate for marketing and branding and everything like that. So, um, we were, uh, that’s where decision, you know, meetings became a little contentious at times. Um, we’ve had a lot of had a lot of arguments over the years. We went through, gosh, I’ve been through the dictionary. I can’t tell you how many times looking at names, um, and and their origins and what they mean and and all that stuff. And, um, it it finally got to a bit of a boiling point where we’re like, listen, we’re bringing on employees and and we’re having to train employees in sports. and we’re having to train them in corporate.

But again, corporate has millions of apparel pieces. Promo has billions. Sports has tens of thousands of pieces. So to to try to and and they’re really two different target markets. So to try to to have employees go after both was even more confusing. And our marketing message was were confusing. And it finally just got to a bit of a boiling point where listen, we keep running into this wall. We’re we’re not we’re growing but really really really slow. Like we’ve got it. We, you know, we’ve tried it this way for 15 years. Like, you know, what what’s the quote about um you always do what you’ve always done. Uh you know, the definition of insanity.

Yeah. Definition of insanity. Um just keep doing the same thing. So, we kept doing this and and anyway, finally, we decided to make this decision to to do the rebrand. We hired a marketing company, looked at a bunch of different names, and we decided to go this route with team built for sports. We think it’s kind of got a tough name, right? um sports is team oriented and and so we went with team built and then origin um is origin brand merch we went with for the for the corporate world and the idea with that is just to get people back I mean you started a business every business has an origin right they have

a reason they got into business and so um we we try to help businesses kind of get back to that point and and again being different you started your business to be different you wanted to provide a product or service that the market didn’t already have so we try to help you get back to that point and and and merch smarter and be different. Yeah, I it’s great messaging and and uh I I really like that alignment like we said with the customer and with the brand and and trying to produce quality quality products, something that people are going to remember and and find useful. Okay, before we before we let you go here, I

just a couple things on as you’ve gone through this journey now 26 years. 26 years. 26 years. uh as you look back across that, what would you say is something that you did really well or something that you do really well and why is that important? I think um my my opinion on it would be relationships. I think business comes down to relationships. There’s a a quote that I heard that um when product and price are equivalent, relationship trumps. And so I work in a promo merch world. I mentioned earlier there’s a lot of good promo merch companies. You can go to a hundred of them. You can find them online. You’re probably going to

be pretty well taken care of at them. You know what I mean? They’re again, they’re they’re good companies. But what we have done different is is um in the course of being different, in the course of meeting with you, in the course of going to you, having you come to us, spending time with you, getting to know more about your business, like the example I provided earlier where I told the guy not to do it, right? I turned down the sale. That forms a relationship over time, right? like like you’re not just they realize I’m not just in it for the dollar. I’m here to actually help strategize with them and find out how to

build their brand and at times turn down sales in order to help them do it. And I think that that that develops respect. Um and and in the course of doing that, we we like to have I like to have relationships. I like to get to know my customers better. I like to take them to lunch. We go golfing. We we do things I I like to get to know them on another level. Um because I think that that through the course of doing that you in the course of doing it trust is established price becomes secondary and and they know that you’re you’re in it for them right you’ve got their best interest in

at heart and in mind and it’s worked I don’t just believe that strategy I I think it in life too right like this is a that’s a pattern for life relationships is a pattern for life it just enhances our our lives and the way that we look at ourselves and the way we view other people and um to me if you can help somebody else with their job. Uh I truly believe business is also secondary. I don’t necessarily like to lead with business. I just met you today. I’d never push our product or service on you. What’s amazing to me is some of the biggest accounts we have are customers that have actually come to

me and said, “Why aren’t you doing our stuff?” after after developing a bit of a friendship and a relationship. Um I don’t know, maybe that makes me a bad sales rep. I I don’t think so. I I just think it’s about relationships. No, the way that you sell, I mean, uh, like people are going to be engaged because the message, I think the message is aligned. People want to have quality. People want to be associated with quality. People want to provide something to their customer that’s going to be meaningful. And so, the way that you’re selling is like, hey, this is what we do. These are all the things that we do. You’re not coming

over to me and saying, you really should be wearing this, or you should be really giving out this pin. No, the message is we can help you create quality products, a quality experience for your customer. You’ve elevated the customer experience. Everybody wants to elevate the customer experience. So, absolutely. And I tell customers, if you’re taken care of, don’t don’t talk to me. Like I if you feel totally taken care of and you’re in the in the in the merch world or in your jersey world or whatever it is, great. You don’t you don’t need to talk to me. I’m glad they’re taking care of you, right? This is my industry, so I’m glad you’re being

taken care of. Mhm. I find though that the majority of times that that’s just not the case. Yeah. Um companies like me are more like order takers. Sure. To where somebody calls them up and says, “Hey, I just need to order a thousand pens.” And I I I literally feel terrible about that because how did that customer even know about those thousand? They’ve already had to do the research. They’ve already done a job that isn’t theirs. Sure. Right. So So yeah, we we like to really kind of reverse that that experience, make it more of an experience and make it emotional. So let me Yeah. and and and yeah, engage emotions. That’s so uh if

somebody calls you, if someone calls you and says, “Hey, I need I need 10,000 pens and uh this is my price point. Can you get me 10,000 pins at this price point?” There’s somebody out there who’s going to say, “Absolutely. I can get you 10,000 pins. It’ll cost you this transaction completed.” In that scenario, how do you manage that? So, normally I will my next question will be tell me about the event. Why why are you giving them away? Because there are times where you just need a cheap pen, right? I mean, I I work with uh Chick-fil-A is one of my one of my other national accounts and there’s times they say, “Hey, we

just want to we just want to hand out some we’re going to throw them out at parades. We’re going to throw out t-shirts at these just random events. We don’t really care how quality they are.” Now, now Chick-fil-A’s a cool enough brand that they have a cult following, right? So, people are going to wear it whether it’s a piece of junk t-shirt or not. But, but the point being that there are times where they just you just want a cheaper product. Um, I think I think that’s okay. I don’t I don’t like it, but I think that’s okay. Um, in some cases, typically though, what I’ll do is try to find out what what what

event are you going to, where’s it at, and who is your target market? Who’s this going to? Mhm. And then from there, if you do want a $10,000 cheap pen, I’m still going to consider every one of those factors. And I’m going to try to find you the coolest pen that that can encompass all of those things related to the event. Okay. So, um something up in Park City, I’d recommend a wood pen. Right? You’re you’re outdoors, you’re thinking nature. Um or to me, it’s going to be green and it’s going to be soft. it’s going to be something that is sustainable type, you know, a renewable um type type product just because of where

it’s at, right? So, so we’re going to be thinking about those things rather than just a cheap pen. And then from there, I’d go to work with both sourcing as well as domestic suppliers and find out what price points we can get for you. But to me, it’s all about the event. Let’s talk about the event first. Bait the hook to suit the fish. Every every single thing that you order is doesn’t matter what order it is. You might just say, “Hey, I just need a hundred t-shirts for my employees.” Okay, let’s talk about that. Let’s talk about your employees. Let’s talk about the age demographic, right? Because if it’s a younger, if they’re younger,

they’re going to want the box t-shirt. That’s what’s in right now. They want the heavy the ‘9s t-shirt is in thicker necklines, draped shoulders. Um, believe it or not, t-shirts are coming shorter now. So, not only short shorts, but but guys are doing the almost like crop t-shirts for guys, which is crazy. So, I know I know it’s coming. Say it ain’t. So, so we will talk about all those demographics and then from there I’ll say, “Okay, let me send you five to eight different links of products that I would recommend based on what you just told me.” Yeah. And businesses have loved that and appreciated it because it just it saves them a ton

of time. And I know it does because I know the time I put into finding those options. Yeah. Right. Absolutely. Well, I think the the the interesting thing about this conversation is we’re I mean, we’re talking about your business and creating products for your customers and and having these conversations and building relationships and how meaningful that is and aligning with your customer goals and, you know, where they’re going to be and what they’re going to do and and and how do you say it? You you bait the hook to suit the fish. Bait the hook to suit the fish. Like this is a lesson not just for a merchandising company. This is a this is

a lesson for lots of companies for all companies who are dealing with customers is relationship is king. Getting an emotional attachment providing quality not just quality product and service but quality advice because your customer doesn’t have time to be an expert in what you’re already an expert in. So it it applied I I think it’s it’s nice because it applies across any type of customer inter customerf facing business just like just like e-hub and just like just like origin. Uh okay maybe maybe a tough question here to to end up on. What as you look back across these 26 years, what is something that you think was a real mistake and would you manage it

differently if it if it came up again? Paying my father-in-law the amount of money we did for a business that was going out of business. Yeah. Pops. He was the real salesman. He was a real salesman. He got paid out handsomely for uh that little basement business that didn’t do much. Um, uh, he he did well with that. You’re probably going to get I love I love my in-laws. They’re wonderful people. But my father-in-law did do very well with that decision. I’ll tell you that. Um, I I think that for years for years, uh, we were late. We were late to the game. And, um, we kept thinking that we kept doubling and tripling down

on what had brought us success previously. and it it hurt us over the years and we have now done a complete 180 with that and now we try to stay out in front of everything. But we were we were followers not leaders in many ways uh in in in both spaces for a time. Um I’m so glad we’re where we’re at now because we have truly reversed that trend, but for a long time we we we did that. We followed one of the big mistakes we made as far as getting in late During COVID, there was nothing going on, right? I mean, businesses weren’t spending money. Believe it or not, that was the one time

you sports, I mean, the crash in ’08, businesses weren’t spending money, but parents were still putting their kids in youth sports, right? That never stopped. And and who would have ever thought that that would have stopped? I mean, it’s free babysitting for parents, right? It gets the kids out and running around and not playing video games and whatever. Like, you is huge. So um in when COVID hit and everybody stopped spending money, the one area that was killing it was direct to consumer, right? You think about the number of people that were ordering online. Amazon was killing its during that time. Um any company that was direct, Beachbody was killing it at that time cuz

people were working out from home, right? Think about your protein companies, Bucked Up, local company killed it during that time, right? CO might have they’re in they’re an awesome business by the way, but CO might have I mean really put them over the edge because we were all working out from home and you know so so anyway um direct to consumer though and we we watched this for about 6 months or a year um of of business suffering and us trying to find we got into masks and you know doing things to try to connect some dots and and and make some sales work but we decided to do a direct to consumer site like

a one-off t-shirt site Right. And um we called it shirt yourself. It’s pretty. You like that, Brandy? It was a little playoff words. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. Know your ship and shirt yourself. So So the idea was to create a one-off model of of you could go on and design your own t-shirt. Yeah. And um so we we spent over a million bucks on that technology. And mind you, somebody would laugh at that, right? A tech company might say a million? That’s a bargain, right? You spend 15 million even. Absolutely. you know, to even have a chance. But for us, that was a significant amount of money. And and we invested a lot of

money. We spent a lot of time in this software and and building this. And we didn’t do tests on it. We didn’t, you know, do the the the type of testing we needed to do. And at the end of the day, um, it it was a flop. It didn’t go anywhere. It just didn’t do anything. And, you know, the million bucks was just in cost. Think about all the time and expense of our our time and expense putting it together. I mean, it was probably a$2 to3 million project that just literally flopped. M and uh we were late. You know, there’s nothing else to be said about we were late to the game. The the

product also wasn’t what people wanted. People don’t necessarily want to go on and design their own shirt. They want a selection of something that’s already pre-made and pre-selected. And we see that from other direct to consumer sites. Since CO ended, direct to consumer has kind of crashed. Um I mean, even not to say companies like Amazon aren’t doing well because they are, but but they’ve slowed since co Sure. Um, your multi-level marketing companies have slowed since COVID. Like, like CO changed the world, right? In in many ways. Yeah, it certainly changed direct to consumer sites. Yeah, we host thousands of websites for customers. Last year, we closed down over 500 of them because they were

direct to consumer sites and they just weren’t doing anything. No, nobody was ordering. So, um, yeah, it it you’ve got to be real selective with those. I mean, I could go on forever just about that, but um you’ve got to be real selective with your direct to consumer sites, but that was a big mistake, a huge mistake. And I would even say that was fairly recent, right? I mean, we’re only going back five, six years. Yeah. Where that mistake was made. Um so, yeah, just being a little bit late to the game on some things. That that that was a big one. Gotcha. Okay. What uh what are the things what do you do to

keep yourself well educated on top of things that are happening? Do you listen to podcasts? Do you read books? That’s such a good question. All the above. Yes. Books, podcast, lots of podcasts. Uh we go to shows. So there’s there’s fabric shows throughout the world that we go to. We actually go visit our factories, China, Egypt. So we go over there, do quality control checks, make sure they’re not sweat shops. Do you know what I mean? Things like that. But um and then we watch the trends very closely. So what what’s fascinating is you think of like, you know, what’s on the runway in New York and Paris and think I mean those are outlandish,

crazy. you’re like, I’ll we’re never that’s never going to be in the corporate space. And you’re right, it won’t, but the colors, the fabrics, some of the styles, they absolutely will be in the corporate space. So, you you have to keep an eye on that stuff. And and throughout the year, they’ll have I mean, certainly have the the Paris and New York runway shows and things, which we keep an eye on, but um they also have shows. Uh Vegas has shows several years, Atlanta, Texas. We’ll go down to some shows there. So they they’ll have shows where um fabric suppliers from across the world will come in. So you got China, Vietnam, Bangladesh, right? Egypt,

Pakistan, wherever, India, and they they’re all presenting their fabrics and their colors and and decoration types and things like that. So there’s several of those throughout the year. We attend all of those. that helps us stay on top of the game uh as far as what’s coming as well as um keeping sourcing channels and partners uh connection for you know in in place for for future sourcing opportunities. Uh, it also includes decoration, different decoration types, right? You think of screen print and heat press and embroidery. When I say that, that accounts for the majority of decoration types, but within those are literally hundreds, if not thousands of types of of products there. And again, bait

the hook to suit the fish, right? It’s all dependent on what we’re going after is what I’m going to recommend to you for that decoration type. Um, and then in the in the promo space, we go to shows. You you I mean, you’ve got to stay on top of stuff. I’m not a fan of or I’m sorry, I’m a fan of practical. I’m a huge fan of practical. We use practical, right? But I mean, I’ll give you a quick example. One of the coolest products I saw at a show was a was a bucket, a 5gallon bucket. And you think a 5gallon bucket? Like, why would that be a cool product? I can go to

Home Depot or Walmart or whatever. And you can, but this this bucket had a complete wrap. It was a 360 wrap with a logo. Uh, it was colored, by the way. It had a complete 360 wrap with a business logo. And the rope was a heavyduty boat rope, and it had kind of a cool knot on the ends. And and you might look at that and say, “Well, okay, but it’s just a bucket.” It is, but now you’ve turned a bucket into something cool, right? You you’ve provided just enough difference to it that now you’ve I want that. Like now I want that. If it was just a 5 gallon bucket, I I wouldn’t care.

But now you now you if I receive that somewhere, I could know there I could never get rid of that. You know what I mean? That thing’s staying in my garage or it’s doing yard work with with me with me or whatever. But so practical is good, but do the coolest practical out there. Mhm. So I I’m telling you, that would be my go-to bucket. And I use buckets fairly regularly, if you can imagine that. But it’s just like landscaping, doing stuff around the house. Yeah. And if something in it, the handle hurts, right? Think of a heavy duty boat rope. Those handles are ridiculous. They’re terrible. They’re the worst. Yeah. I want that. I

want that rope bucket. I don’t know where we can find one, but Okay. Uh, you know, I just had a thought while you were talking about this. I know you’re you’re big into sourcing and you mentioned all of these different countries. Are you in the middle of a sourcing dilemma? Absolutely. At the moment. Oh yeah. Yeah. Tariffs are tough. Is it? Yeah. And it’s not just me. I mean, my products are minuscule in the grand scheme of things, right? Think about what we import from China. I mean, it is a significant portion of of consumable goods that that all of us consume. It’s got to get figured out. Um, Trump’s a business guy and he

knows that businesses are going to find a way around this and we’ve we found some ways to try to get around things, but we’ve also had to, you know, we’ve also had to pull some sourcing from China, which is also important if you’re a business. You’ve got to make sure you’re working with a company that has some connections in other places, right? Because there there can come a point in time where maybe China can’t do it. And when those tariffs went up 143% overnight, we pulled from Pakistan and Egypt and the Dominican and Mexico and right, it’s important to have variety. You’ve got to have selection. I mean, to me, you you can never just

have all your eggs in one basket. So, we have found that even with increased tariffs, it’s hard to beat China. It’s just tough. They’re they’re so dialed in. They are so dialed in with manufacturing over there. So, it’s tough to beat. But, um, we still import out of a lot of different countries. And again, bait the hook to suit the fish, whatever. Absolutely. Sometime China’s great in one fabric, Egypt’s better in another, Pakistan’s better in another, right? So, it all depends on what project we’re working on, what we’re going after. Well, listen, you guys have done an amazing job. Way to go. Congratulations. I love the story. I love the messaging. Continued success. Thank you.

Congratulations on the success of yours as well. Well, hopefully we can figure out a way to do a little work together on both sides. I think it makes I think it makes a lot of sense. Yeah. I told I told Darren earlier to contact our guys. So yeah, I love the way you guys do business. Darren’s Yeah, Darren’s a good guy. Well, it’s very much aligned. I mean, I think that’s the interesting thing about this particular conversation that we’ve had is that we’re two different industries, but in terms of where we’re aligned on elevating the customer experience. Maybe that’s our messaging for day for for today. How to elevate the customer experience. We all want

that, right? Think about service has gone downhill. No kidding. Has it not like Yeah. You get the minimum. That’s why we like the Chick-fil-Ass and the Disneylands cuz they treat you they treat you with respect. That’s right. You get the minimal and everybody turns around that pad and says, “You want to leave a tip?” I mean, that’s the customer service experience today, which is by the way, and when you get good service, when you get like really friendly, meaningful service and they turn that pad around, heck yeah. I’m willing. Isn’t it interesting, too? You’re tipping more. Absolutely. I’m not just wanting to tip the 20%. I’m wanting to do like 30%. That’s absolutely correct for

that service because it is it’s a thing. I’m shocked businesses aren’t picking up on this. Our restaurants aren’t picking up on this. Hopefully hopefully they hopefully they are. Anyway, Travis, thank you so much for having me. Hey, you know what? Let’s let’s get the brothers-in-law back in here sometime and we’ll get we’ll get the other side. You don’t want them. We’ll get the other side of the story. Hey, thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. Appreciate Thank you. Thank you for listening to the Know Your Ship podcast presented by EHUB. Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a review.