The Life Lessons You Don’t Learn in Business School

I’m a big believer on setting proper expectations so I you know
I tried I tried to do it when I got married I told my wife this is not going
to be easy uh but for you if you’re if you’re still up for this it’s going to
be a three for me but for you if you’re still up for this then let’s do it
let’s do it that’s about how the proposal work you do you do that well you
set proper expectations welcome to the know your ship podcast presented by
e-hub I’m your host Frank do this is the one and only Jeff Spangler welcome
to the know your ship podcast what do you think of that um do you like that I
do like that yeah I like that logo you do yeah yeah got got some big letters
it’s got some small letters it’s got some capital letters you got some
presented by in there um so you know you got e-hub in there that’s fantastic
what if you were running a podcast if you were the marketing director for a
company like ehub and you were running a podcast what would you put on the
screen well first of all I think if I were running marketing uh for ehub
e-hub would be in serious trouble like Oh I thought you were going to say I’d
get a new podcast host well first I mean yes yeah that that’s that’s also on
the list but but first but first we would be in trouble yeah first we should
acknowledge that things are not going well therefore I’m now in as the
marketing director yeah well we’re in the month of March and basketball
college basketball tournaments are happening now I thought maybe we should
throw up a tournament in the background here let’s do it but do you think
that would be too distracting once when we were doing the podcast all of a
sudden Caleb email or something popped up on the screen and let me tell you
there was some some stuff yes some discussions were had afterwards there were
some interesting yeah email exchanges I I kind of I kind of feel like that’s
uh that just makes life more interesting you know like you you get to have
that discussion with Caleb then yeah if would you feel would you feel uh
would you feel any sense of anxiety if someone if you accidentally if you ran
away from your laptop one day because you had to run you had to go to lunch
or something you forgot to close your laptop and someone walked in and happen
to look at your your inbox and your email would you have any anxiety anxiety
about that would there be anything in there that would cause you to
immediately rush back to the office probably not I’m pretty boring that way
like I yeah I think so the way I think of you is like very like super very
buttoned up professional you have a great sense of humor I as well I like to
joke around yeah but but but I I on the surface I would say if I saw your
there would be nothing interesting in your inbox don’t take that the wrong
way there would be nothing in let me try and take that the right way let let
me start there in your email I mean I would look at your inbox and be like
wow this is boring but is that I want to know I’m trying to dig out this dark
side like who could I talk to that would give me the Dark Side of Jeff
Spangler that’s a good question my probably my daughter my daughter she runs
my social media now is that right yeah yeah yeah like what is your what does
that consist of uh pretty much everything CU I don’t have social media so you
know I I take pictures of places that I’m at and I send it to her and I give
her a little description and she posts it wherever and is that like Instagram
Stam and Linkedin and do you have X or something else I I I know for a fact
there’s Instagram and the reason I know that is a week ago with some of my
friends that you know they got very upset when they found out that she was
running my social media because they instantly said do you have any idea the
things I’ve been sending to you on Instagram and you haven’t seen and I
haven’t seen any of them and apparently she’s been getting them all is isn’t
that part of her responsibility as the runner of your or the work man of your
social media this is kind of a new new relationship pass that along well
maybe this is an opportunity for you to have a professional discussion it’s
kind of like your discussion with Caleb I was able to have that discussion
with her like we we discussed what things need to be passed on to me yeah and
what things don’t and she had a good comeback to that she said well that’s
going to require you to actually log into your social media so I I felt like
that was a fair you did yeah like now she’s putting it back on you but she’s
run she’s running your stuff what is your what is that’s a good point I
should I should take a more hard line with her I think so too yeah yeah if
you if you’d like maybe we can roleplay that later you know maybe later maybe
later okay I so you have a life that I think like I look at your I I’ve I
look at your life and I get to hang around you a little bit and I’m like man
I’d really like to have Jeff’s life is it is it just is it just an act or is
this is it is that real I mean is that the real deal cuz because I look at
you and and and what the things that you get to do that and that seems really
appealing do you I mean is it is it the same do you feel the same way like
you I feel pretty lucky yeah yeah no I I I feel very lucky I I get to do a
lot of cool things I I’m I do business with a lot of really really good
people um I got you know I’ve got great family and friends around me uh but
yeah I mean everybody goes through times where you’re saying hey I I feel
like I need to be more productive or I feel like I want to do more or I feel
like I wish this project was going better or whatever like I I don’t know I
mean maybe that’s uh maybe that’s growing up kind of in an environment where
I was poor you know I didn’t we didn’t have much uh so everything you you
just learn to work hard so you know my dad always taught me you get up you
work hard and so yes it’s fantastic that I get to go do some of the the
things I get to go do but every once in a while I wake up and I’m like what
am I really doing I’m out I’m out there screwing around a lot and playing a
lot of golf hanging out with a lot of really cool people doing a lot of these
experiences but you still want to feel productive you still you still want to
feel like you’re accomplishing things I think that’s a great point I’m glad
you said that because it makes you a little more human because the way that
you manage everything it it just feels like it’s everything’s aign you you
have a schedule you’re after it you’re always grinding uh and and so I would
like to talk about how you got to that point I’d like to talk about your
background I’d like to talk and and by the way this is you’ve gone through
some rocky times as well that I that I know about you’re you’re welcome to
talk about as much of that as you’d like or not or not at all but but I want
to know how that has has molded you into what you are today and and what you
en enjoyed doing today so let’s let’s start from the let’s start from the
beginning let’s start from the beginning yeah I knew I know you grew up in
Mexico sorry New Mexico noo Mexico no or is it noo noo noo Mexico the O’s
have to match right is that how it goes Mexico I don’t think the O’s have to
match I think they do are you sure no I’m not I should know the answer to
this growing up in New Mexico I should know the I took three years of Spanish
too but how much that didn’t go real well oh yeah I took three years of
Spanish as well and I I can’t speak obviously I can’t speak Spanish okay so
so tell me about the the the Hard Scrabble streets of New Mexico it was uh it
was great I had a good time down there it was uh it was interesting it was
different different uh environment to grow up in I don’t know I don’t know
what to say about New Mexico like that was just your experience did your
parents I mean were they from somewhere else how did they end up in new New
Mexico uh they were both born in New Mexico my dad was military uh so he
traveled around a little bit uh my uh I was born in Los Alamos New Mexico
he’d gotten out of the military and he he kind of located in Los Alamos was
working for Xerox um so like in sales or something or he was a technician so
you know kind of just blue collar mhm Blue Collar environment and then then
uh he moved they both my parents were were born and raised in the four
corners area and so we they ended up moving back up into the four corners
area the four corners area is not M correct me if I’m wrong that’s not a very
highly populated area is it no I mean that’s and and which which reservation
is that Navajo that’s the Navajo res nav Navajo res a is right by well
actually there’s two there’s uh the Ute reservation that’s also on the
Colorado side Navajo reservation kind of on the New Mexico and Arizona side
so gotcha okay so he they were living in the four corners What were what was
he doing there still working for Xerox uh work for Xerox my when my uh let’s
see my my when I was about 12 years old my grandpa owned a number of potato
chip bread and like host his cupcake routes you know and he uh I actually
went to work for him as as a 12-year-old kid uh nice for one day and uh and
then then he he had he came to my dad and told my dad that my dad needed to
fire me so he said it took way more time to do the routes with me out there
than then just on his own so after after one day my dad and my mom sat me
down fired me from my very first job Apparently after an explosive day
apparently my grandpa to be fair my grandpa I was a high strung kid and uh my
grandpa did not have the patience for me he we had a few run-ins growing on
the route oh growing growing up growing up in general what do you mean you
are a high strung kid I would not describe you that way I I I was I was I got
in a lot of trouble growing up I I had a I had a lot of energy and a lot of
trouble let’s define trouble a lot of trouble because you were getting in
fights a lot of trouble because you were not you disobeyed your parents a lot
of trouble because you just got mixed up in goofy things that you shouldn’t
be doing like probably probably more of the second and third you know kind of
a mix of the second and third it wasn’t that I wanted to disobey my parents
it was it was that I had I had a lot I had a lot of energy and it was hard
for me to stay focused and so they they would tell me to do things and I had
a hard time following that direction and so it Le it led to I don’t know I
mean we you know just as an example I we probably had six or seven
babysitters that just quit right in the middle of babysitting uh cuz they
they couldn’t handle the craziness like and I don’t even know how to describe
it I really don’t know how to describe it it was it was just me I had I had a
little bit of an issue with authority from other people outside of the firm
hand of my father and so it led to Le it led to some experiences it led to
some interesting experiences I I I love what’s happening right now like this
I would have have no clue that this was in your background no it it you know
I had a nasty temper growing up too a nasty temper and I got it from my dad
my dad my dad I I had a situation one time as I mentioned I get I got in a
lot of trouble uh I don’t even remember what happened there there was a time
one day where I was doing something with my younger brother we started
fighting a little bit my younger brother starts to cry my dad comes into the
room he’s like that’s it you know you’re outside I’m you know I’m I’m I knew
what was coming I he was about he was about to give me swats and so but he
was so angry and uh we’re walking through the house and I’m following him and
in my mind I’m thinking I’m about to get it and you know as a kid when you
know that you’re about to get it it’s never it’s never good you got all the
anxiety built up MH but uh on our house we had a screen door and on in the
old screen doors back then they had those spring hinges on the screen door
yeah and so my dad you know he’s he’s upset with me he’s saying I don’t even
remember what he’s saying but he’s saying a few things and he keeps looking
back and he’s looking forward and he’s and he’s walking outside furiously and
he gets to the screen door and he hits the screen door because he’s angry you
know he hits the screen door and he kind of turns at the same time to talk to
me that screen door comes back and hits him and uh this is terrible for you I
literally no it actually ended up it was terrifying terrifying cuz I watched
him rip this screen door off the hinges and shred it in front of me just
completely Shred the screen door but I never got swats I never it turned from
him having rage towards me to him having rage towards the screen door and it
worked out great for me that’s amazing and uh it was shortly after that that
we talked a little bit about being able to control our anger uh the as a as a
family as a family okay I have a couple questions to follow up on that one
what what did you learn about about yourself after your one day experience on
the route with your grandfather was there did was there a learning experience
as you look back uh yeah there were there were a few actually um one actually
that that was one one of the times where I realized that my being distracted
so much was going to hinder my ability to be productive in life um that was
kind of the first time that I had a bit of a wakeup call I mean it was a good
experience for me honestly because it was the first time that I was
devastated I was crying uh I couldn’t believe that My Own Grandpa would fire
me and that he wouldn’t even do it himself that he made my dad do it yeah but
uh there was a bit of a conversation that I was able to have with my parents
about that I needed to be able to take that energy that I had and direct it
in a way that was going to be more productive for me that’s good so yeah that
that was good I also learned that uh because about a month later that led to
my dad having a conversation with my grandpa about my Dad buying out my
grandpa from his routes and my dad ended up owning those routes and I got
rehired about a month later so I also learned that it pays to know somebody
you know you you got to keep the right relationship I know we’re laughing
about that but isn’t that true it is true it is true 100% it’s true yeah it’s
about it’s not always about what you know but who you know and if you have
the skill to go along with it that’s that’s meaningful did you approach the
job differently the second time around oh yeah yeah I uh I loved my dad we
had a relationship that was uh he had a firm hand but I loved him I I looked
up to him I respected him uh so being able to to have an opportunity to prove
to him that I could work and that I could be productive was I I I definitely
treated it differently and I I I worked really hard to to become the guy that
could that he could rely on that uh that he could eventually you know I ended
up running routes for him I ended up I ended up kind of being in that
position where I felt like he respected me as well and that he trusted me and
could rely on me we we didn’t have a lot of money as a family so you know it
was uh it was one of those deals where I I just felt good about being able to
contribute to the family yeah did you recognize early on is that a lasting
memory of you like this work ethic from your from your dad from your family
is that where you developed that for sure yeah for sure my my dad uh I think
to this day he could still outwork me like he he that’s just in his DNA
honestly he’s he he likes to work he likes to be productive he uh for sure
something I got from him okay so you’re back on the route you’re you’re what
elementary school junior high at this at this point in your life yeah uh what
what are you when you’re 12 years old I don’t I don’t yeah you’re probably
like heading into heading into like junior high or middle school or whatever
I was pretty young I was I was one of the younger ones in my grade so yeah
probably Junior High that’s probably right gotcha okay do at this point do
you have any aspirations of like are are are you at this point are you
developing any other aspirations about what you want your life to be like uh
not necessarily I mean you know that was that was the I would say that that
was one of the things that uh so my my parents were extremely supportive of
me and the things that I wanted to do mhm but we didn’t really talk about
aspirations we didn’t really talk much about uh you know future stuff and
what that’s going to look like and I think that they’d kind of fallen into
some of the things that they did and I think that that’s kind of you know
they they grew up in an era where you worked for my dad worked for Xerox for
for years and back then it was hey you’ll work for the same company for years
and then you’ll eventually retire from there and so it was different watching
him buy my grandpa out and see and realizing that you know things had changed
for him and that things could be viewed differently and uh I don’t know I
mean it was a good experience in general for me to I felt like I kind of got
some of the entrepreneurial aspects of of being in and around my dad as he
went through that and it kind of started to Foster some of the the feelings I
had about how I wanted to be but I don’t know that I would have I don’t know
that I would have said that I was already thinking about it I think I think
that there were some things that were happening around me that were teaching
me teaching me things that eventually I recognized as you know hey this is
something I need to pay attention to but it wasn’t necessarily like hey Jeff
like you could own a company one day or you could run a business one day or
you could it wasn’t like you said not this aspirational kind of stuff but but
his thing was like effort hard work yeah be productive do your job yeah yeah
foundational no it’s so my that that’s exactly right my so during this
process of my dad taking over my grandpa’s routes you know he he never it was
good it provided for the family but we still didn’t didn’t ever make great
money and so it wasn’t one of these things where it was like hey this is a
this is a great Avenue because it’s a a a potential to make money and really
you know we we never took trips you know I mean we we were fairly poor yeah
and so it wasn’t one of those deals where it was like Hey this this is great
to be an entrepreneur this is great it was more like yeah this this provides
for the family you know this this gets us by but and every once in a while my
dad would talk about the people would approach him about you know coming to
work for them and he would consider it and I would watch him consider these
other things and so in my mind it was like well that’s just as good as owning
your own business so but eventually you get a little older and you start to
realize like I would start to have conversations with my dad about well hey
what if we went and talk to the to the store owners about getting some better
positions in the stores you know like let’s let’s try and get more of our
products sold and that would that would uh make more money for us and etc etc
and you know he he would do things like that but I could tell that he wasn’t
as comfortable with it as I was and uh so that’s that’s where I started to
realize that he and I even though I’d learned a lot of things from him that
he and I looked at things a little bit differently interesting did as as you
go through this experience did your dad by the way did he was that the rest
of his career he kind of ran these these routes and was he still working for
Xerox no no no no he he he he quit Xerox and went to work full-time doing
that gotcha and that’s where he that’s how he finished yeah that’s how he
that’s where he retired it’s it is a different it’s it’s a different deal I I
have stories like that for my family as well saying in one thing for your
whole career and and retiring in that so how did you how did you end up getting
out of New Mexico did you go to school did you did you go have you ever been
to New Mexico I’ve been to New Mexico several times have you yeah okay yeah
I’ve been to all parts of New Mexico like you name a place in New Mexico I’ve
probably been there I’ve been four corners had the great we we would get
turquoise jewelry and fry bread both fantastic by the way absolutely in the
four corners as we were driving through going to visit my grandparents in
Colorado I’ve been to Santa Fe ta Albuquerque Los cruus I mean you have you
have been around New Mexico yeah I’ve been around New Mexico yeah have you
ever been in in Santa Fe do you know the thing the church in Santa Fe yeah
and the the stairway inste we took we took field trips to there so as a kid
we would take field trips to there yeah do you remember the name of that I
don’t no anyway we’re just going to draw we’re not going to talk about the
story but I just wanted people to know what we’re talking about okay so you
used to take field trips she got it lto Chapel yes yes that’s it that’s
exactly what it is what it is again Loro Chapel Loretto Chapel in Santa Fe
yeah that’s it look it up you can Google it okay all right so so yes I’ve
been to Santa back to your point so are you saying at some point you were
like I kind of want to get out of New Mexico yeah I chose to serve a mission
uh most of my friends growing up were not religious uh we we as I mentioned
we got in a lot of trouble sometimes uh good good guys you know like really
good guys but we we did you know we did get in some trouble and uh but on my
mission I I met some other guys that were you know they had plans of coming
up and going to school uh in Utah and I don’t know I I clicked with them and
uh you know it was one of those deals where you start to talk about my
parents again my parents didn’t really talk much about future plans and so
even things like college they’re like yeah college would be great we’d love
for you to go to college but we never really talked about a plan on getting
there or you know which school it was going to be or anything like that it
was more of a you know we we we did a lot of sports in my family so you know
we my my older sisters had both you know gone on to play college sports and
really and so I think the the plan originally was that I was also going to
play a college sport and I was pretty good at baseball but I was 5’9 and 134
lbs when I graduated and so you know not too many people looking for five
934b not many players yeah um anyway so yeah not not getting a lot of offers
that way but uh so I think that from my parents perspective it was kind of
like oh you didn’t get a sports scholarship so now what are you going to do
and go to work go to work yeah so go to work but uh all of a sudden I met
these guys on the mission and they’re like hey we’re going to actually go to
college we’re going to go to school we’re going to do some other things so I
was like oh yeah okay yeah let’s do let’s try that let let let’s go do that
so yeah I I moved up to Utah and were you a good student no not particularly
I I got I got decent grades I was in I was in the good classes um but I was
not uh I was not studious I would I would put it that way I was not I was not
good about staying on top of my homework and uh getting it turned in so I got
good enough grades to get by and uh that was about it I honestly don’t
remember doing much homework at all ever uh but I I managed to get decent
grades okay so you go through you go through your mission where did you where
did you serve Mississippi really Mississippi how was that experience it was
uh I liked it culturally from New Mexico to Mississippi very different very
different what are the things that you love about Mississippi the people
they’re very very very nice people down there they uh they you know they talk
about the Bible Belt and uh it’s a real thing you know you you got a you got
a lot of very very uh christian-based uh people down there that want to do
good things for other people how how was it delivering the message of the LDS
church in Mississippi how was that experience uh it was it was good it was it
was a lot of fun you know there I don’t know it you you had a lot of people
that were threatened by us down there and so we got chased off some porches
you know we we had people threaten us you know but for the most part it was
great you know people people respect religion in general down there and so
outside of those few occasions uh for the most part it was fantastic you know
we we had a lot of very interesting discussions with people and you got a
chance to to see some of their culture and some of what they grew up in um so
it’s uh I like people in general and so and I and I like unique people I like
unique stories so anytime I’m around that I I enjoy those circumstances
that’s really interesting because most of the people I know who know you
think of you as an introvert and not a people person really like someone who
shies away from engaging with others like you want to you’re loner okay um so
maybe you lack self-awareness yeah maybe maybe I do that’s possible you know
I I I’m not I’m not going to say that’s not possible at this point in your
life I still have lots of questions about your mission but at this point in
your life life I want to know about your UND diagnosed ADHD and how that’s
manifesting itself when you’re now on your mission are you still like the
rambunctious no no I had kind of a unique situation happen um this probably
leads to me acting a little bit more like an introvert quite honestly uh I
had there was a he ended up being my best friend uh really good friend of
mine I should say I I had a few guys that were really good friends with me
but uh there was there was a guy that was actually dating my older sister um
who had a little bit of a rough uh family life uh he was he was struggling in
the home a little bit and for some reason my parents decided to invite him to
come stay with us and so he he actually came and lived with us but one of the
stipulations of him coming and living with us before I go into high school so
this is right before 9th grade one of the stipulations of him coming and
living with us was that he was to make sure that uh that I wasn’t partying he
uh he he had to watch over you he had to watch over me so he’s a senior you
know he’s one of the big jock studs of the high school and uh I’m this coming
into my freshman year kid and um my mom told him she’s like Hey listen you
know Jeff Jeff’s not made a ton of great choices on some of this stuff up to this
point and so if you’re going to come live with us you can’t be bringing that
into our house you can’t be you can’t be allowing him to see this and be
around you and and party etc etc and so um he uh he took it serious and and
he uh he didn’t let me participate in that kind of stuff and it was it was
eye openening like it was a change for me like I up till that point it wasn’t
that I was seeking that stuff out mhm but I I was around a lot of people that
would try a lot of found yourself in those Circ I found myself doing things I
probably shouldn’t have been doing got you and so your parents but he shut
that down like he hired a personal security guard personal trainer what you
know today today we’d call that a personal trainer I think but I love that
that’s such a great story back back then it was just a a random kid that came
to live with us so and you became pretty close to him very close yeah and and
uh is that a relationship that he endures yeah yeah yeah amazing yeah is is
he in this area or is he no he lives down in New Mexico I was going to say
I’d love to meet that guy maybe we should take a trip he’s a good dude go to
the chapel we can go visit we get some we get some uh fried bread fried bread
hey I’m in for that that stuff was so good it they so good they make it very
good very good there’s secret I’m pretty sure it’s secret all healthy too
100% healthy there it’s it’s from the earth from the Earth that’s right yeah
it’s healthy okay so going back to your mission now I’m so glad that you told
me that story by the way no one describes you as an introvert but but but
that experience kind of May maybe got you into this I I don’t know I was
going to say more serious more serious I was more I was more reserved for
sure okay it it led it led me to have to think about things more than I think
I’d ever thought about things um and just started me down this I all of a
sudden I was around people that were doing all the things that I had been
doing and I wasn’t allowed to do them anymore and I started realizing uh how
how bad decisions people make in those circumstances wow and yeah anyways
that’s that’s a whole other story I would say this this is not a this is not
to meant to be demeaning at all that’s not a good way to start I would say this
looking back on the first time that I met you in Scotland I would say that
you were friendly and that you were approachable but it also I also feel like
it took me a long time to work my way into a deeper relationship with you
interesting and maybe that’s just because I didn’t really like you that’s
that’s I think that’s what it was I if I’m being honest I I was like would
this guy please leave me alone I I can’t believe he’s still calling me why is
he not getting the hint it’s only funny because it’s true he keeps asking me
to lunch and stuff I don’t I don’t want to go I don’t you know I don’t know
why I don’t know why that is honestly cuz I felt like I felt like we had a
good relationship uh but yeah it’s it it’s probably a little bit that way way
I don’t know I I feel like I get a little bit that way with with new
relationships where it’s a lot of small talk and pleasantries but just kind
of feeling it out yeah yeah it goes okay let’s go back to your mission okay
let’s go on a on a scale of one to 10 one being this Cakewalk 10 being the
most difficult thing I’ve ever done in my life what what was your experience
on the mission um I don’t know I mean missions are tough in general uh so
there were some tough parts of of my mission but I loved my mission I I would
put it at like a three maybe like three or four in terms of difficulty yeah
like it it was it was not hard for me like I I’d already learned how to work
hard so that part for me was not difficult it didn’t it didn’t bother me to
go do do the work I love that it didn’t it didn’t bother me to it honestly
didn’t bother me that people rejecting us out there that that didn’t bother
me at all either like I enjoyed the people I was around I I you know I
enjoyed the the things that I was doing and like I said I I met a ton of very
interesting people and that was uh that was fun for me but your background
maybe the way you grew up and your circumstances very valuable in that
experience on the mission because it is it can be it is a lot of rejection
yeah and and a lot L of people don’t manage that very well no and and maybe I
don’t know maybe the the circumstances you were in like you said you love the
people that’s the first thing you said what was your favorite part of about
the mission you said the people and maybe that’s another thing is that you
were just in a in a good element of people yeah yeah I I would say that
that’s that was a lot of it it was unique I mean I I don’t I’ve uh I I’ve
tried to tell other people I don’t know that I could describe properly a
mission cuz I think a mission is different for everybody anyways but uh
whoever described it to me didn’t do a great job either you know like not
that I blame him but they just was it your security guard it was it actually
yeah he actually tried to talk me out of it but you know that’s that’s a
whole other story um no but it seriously I what do you tell somebody that’s
about to go on a mission I don’t I don’t know what you really tell them to
prepare them for what they’re going to be getting into what do you mean you
know what to tell them it’s exactly what your dad told you work hard that’s
what I’ve told my kids what I’ve told my kids is hey it’s going to be tough
like I yeah I’m a big believer on setting proper expectations so I you know I
tried I tried to do it when I got married I told my wife this is not going to
be easy uh but for you if you’re if you’re still up for this it’s going to be
a three for me but for you if you’re still up for this then let’s do it let’s
do it that’s about how the proposal work you do you do that well you set
proper expect I know this because I went to you one day and I said Jeff and
then you said it’s Mr Spangler and I said Jeff I’d like to be a singled
digigit handicap in Golf do you think t