Redefining Dress Shirts: Inside the &Collar Story with Ben Perkins

And look, I’m not again talking about Elon, I’m not trying to
build four billion hundred billion dollar businesses. I’m just trying to
build one $100 million business. And I’d like to be present for my two kids’
lives and go home. And and and I think that the best way to get there is by
empowering and enabling >> our small team to make their own decisions.
>> Welcome to the Know Your Ship podcast presented by EHUB. I’m your
host, Frank Dolce. >> Ben Perkins and caller, we’ve been trying to get
you on this podcast for a long time. Like, you’re a busy guy. >> Sorry.
>> Or you just were reluctant for some reason to come on the podcast. I
don’t know. >> Not reluctant. I just uh I knew I wouldn’t have gotten a
free drink if I said yes on the first time. >> Oh. >> I I learned
from my wife, my now wife, that uh >> Mhm. the harder to get or you
play, the more you get out of it. So, uh, you offered me a drink, you
introduced me to employees. >> Yeah, you were very friendly. >>
Yeah. If this was the first time at asking, you would have just pushed me
into a dark corner and said, “Hey, just start talking.” So, I see
>> this was by design. >> Very, very strategic. Very strategic of
you. You know, I’ve looked through I’ve known an Collar for a while and it’s
the only shirt that uh my sons wear if they if they dress up and but I wear I
wear dress shirts all the time. And so I’m curious about um your So your one
of your things is like I hate dress shirts. So I decided to start making
dress shirts like >> Mhm. But I love dress shirts. So where do I fit in
the and collar world? That’s the tough question. But that shirt looks great.
It fits you great. And it’s a great design. I afterwards we’ll take a picture
of that design if that’s okay. Absolutely. >> And throw it into our uh
future catalog. Uh it’s a genuinely a great looking shirt. I was going to ask
you where you mind if I ask you where you got it from? >> This shirt is
from a local company called HM Cole. >> Oh, okay. I know those guys
very well. Yeah. Okay. Hence why it looks tailored. I was about to say that
looks tailored for you. It is tailored. Well, and I’m going to be honest,
like it is tailored and I like the fit, but I’m I’m still getting used to
like the tailored >> shirt fit. So, >> uh, but that said, I’ve
gotten a lot of compliments on this. >> You look great. I I genuinely
was going to compliment it. I know it wasn’t ours. Um, >> thank you.
>> I mean, we say the shirt can be for everyone. Mhm. >> Uh but I
think pretty early on we found and this is the classic this is not a Benism.
Uh so I won’t take credit for it but when you try to be everything for
everyone and you suddenly become nothing >> where it’s like hey let’s
lean into exactly what you said. You said the phrase around which we built
the entire business. Your boy these are the only shirts your boys will wear
if they have to dress up. Uh, I mean, seriously, that that was kind of the
psyche we wanted to tap into where So, my dad, for example, I don’t know if
he likes dress shirts, but every single day in his career, >> he’s 65,
uh, he has worn a dress shirt. >> Mhm. >> Uh, and you can
probably think of the brands that he was wearing, you know, Brooks Brothers,
you know, whoever, whomever. >> Uh, he we found out pretty quickly that
he wasn’t the guy we were going to convert. >> Obviously, we’ll say yes
to his wallet. Mhm. >> Uh, but the battle wasn’t trying to get you from
a tailored fit or not a tailored fit, traditional dress shirt sizing with a
whatever collar size and sleeve length with which I imagine you know what you
are >> and I imagine your sons don’t know what they are. >> I
doubt it. >> I I would bet good money. >> 16 and 12 35. >>
Yeah, I knew that you would know it. Uh we were like, “Hey, why don’t we
go for the guys who aren’t familiar with their collar size and sleeve
length?” Because our sizing is a little bit more non-traditional. So,
you know, extra small through 5XL with multiple fits. Obviously, I can tell
you what the equivalent of a medium slim collar size and sleeve length is. Mhm.
>> Uh, but it’s like, hey, for a guy just shopping for his friend’s
wedding or for a mission or whatever, oh, I’m a medium in my Lululemon or in
my Nike, I’m probably a medium in this these guys’ shirt. And that was that
was what we tapped into. So, we won’t say no to you. Uh, but honestly, we’re
not the best dress shirt maker out there. Like, there are going to be details
in our product that you’re not like, “Wow, that’s a fine
craftsmanship.” I think it is the best value. I think it’s the best bang
for your buck. I think for under a $50 shirt, >> right? >> I
mean, the price point’s amazing. >> Yeah. And and we know that, but
like if I go to an Eton shirt, if you’re familiar with that brand, or it’s
like, oh, and and you know, we actually share a manufacturer with who’s who
of dress shirts, >> and I’ve been to the factory and I see their their
lines, you know, Brooks Brothers shirts coming off the press proverbally
speaking and that ours, like there for sure is a difference. But that’s also
why that shirt cost 250 bucks more. Uh, and yeah, so I think there is a
world. This is a really long You started me off on a passionate thing that
there are so many dress shirts sold in America every day. Every guy has to
own one. I don’t know what your requirement at e-hub is uh for >> well
for clothing. >> I mean yeah, you just opened up a can of worms.
>> Oh, sorry. Because like I want a requirement. >> Okay. Like I
keep hinting at in fact when we were walking in here I introduced you to our
HR director and >> Jordan. >> Yes. Yes. And I I’m kind of
dropping hints like, “Hey, wouldn’t it be nice if we had standard of
dress at E-Hub?” And and so I and but but I also realize like that may
be just a like a generational thing. I hate to admit that. >> I you
know, as someone who sells dress shirts, I hope it’s not a generational
thing. And it seems like it’s almost a pendulum that’s kind of swinging back
into the middle. Yeah. >> Where with an older generation, every day you
had to wear >> and not an old generation. For the record, I said older.
Uh my my dad always gets on me for that one. >> Solomon, we might have
to make that a clip. I don’t know. He I think he just >> No, no, no,
no, no, no, no. Solomon Solomon is wearing a dress shirt. That’s what started
this whole thing. So Solomon, don’t listen to him. Uh um but someone’s
wearing a dress shirt. I saw multiple people wearing dress shirts that you
introduced me to. >> Yes. >> And it’s like, hey, I don’t know
what Solomon’s wearing. Maybe bought it from H&M. I don’t know. It’s a
good-look shirt. Uh but I would imagine Solomon doesn’t wake up in the
morning thinking, I want to wear a dress shirt today. Maybe I’m wrong,
Solomon. We haven’t even talked. Uh but uh we’re we’re saying we’re for that
guy. the guy who if he has to wear clothes, we’re the only ones he wants to
wear. >> And by clothes, I mean dress shirts. >> Dress shirts.
>> Well, we’ll have to we’re going to have to talk about after this.
We’re going to have to talk about doing a little a little thing, a little
analler e-hub promotion inside the >> walls here and maybe we can
>> And you’re a marketing guy. >> Level up. I’m not. These are
all the marketing these are these are all the marketing guys. you know, you
mentioned something and I I want to ask you about that. Um, but I also want
to get back to your your background a little bit more. But first, let me just
let me just go down this path. So, you mentioned that you’re you’re like you
have a wide range. You said like extra small up to >> 5X. 5X. That’s an
incredible range of sizing. And you do things like you have slim, you have
athletic, you have slim tall. >> Yep. >> Do you have athletic?
>> We do, but only in only in white are standard white shirts. Yeah. So
when you think about the SKS, I think total skew count is 1300. Most of the
>> it most of the >> less than 100 of those SKs account for 70%
of revenue, which I think is probably normal for a lot of brands. I mean,
we’re very concentrated in white dress shirts. >> Okay. >> Uh,
and so it’s on white that we’ve expanded. So, white is what has up to 5XL.
Like the pattern I’m wearing right now. >> Mhm. >> It only goes
up to two. >> Uh, okay. So, the the white is the one that carries all
of the and obviously that’s the most broadly sold. >> And so, that’s
that’s got the tall versions, that’s got pocketless versions, that’s got
button-d down collar, non-button down collar. Yes. So just that’s just
options you can pick the main winner >> in ordering. Okay. So I’m
curious because you know you you you talk about um when you were coming up
with this idea and >> you were part well 13 years old you kind of came
up with this like how can I combine my soccer jersey with a with a shirt and
then on your mission you had this experience as well. So you’re not and you
don’t come from a family of manufacturers. I’m just curious how you came up
with like well we really need to expand our sizing our range of fits for
people. Is that based on feedback research or just a >> this was just
something you came up with like we need to have a really broad range?
>> Probably the answer is yes. It’s it’s sticking the finger in the air
and be like what what are we going to do today? Mhm. >> Um, we’ve
become a little bit more scientific and methodical about those choices now.
It’s like, oh, you know, we get requests to make women’s stuff all the time.
Do we have women’s yet? No. We probably could sell a little bit of women’s.
Would we do a great job? I don’t think so. Uh, >> so at first you get
inundated with, hey, you should do this. You should do this. And it’s all
it’s all well-meaning and I think people are genuinely sharing their personal
preferences. But the hard part about doing a value a best value brand, which
we’re saying we are, >> is you kind of got to stay in the middle of the
lane >> where there are much cooler brands that do bespoke type
designs, perfect fit. It’s like they’re whipping out the world’s most
innovative new fabrics. It’s like we’re not that, you know. less so your your
question that started this all off where do I fall >> I think it’s more
like where does and collar fall in your wardrobe like thinking thinking
>> of where we sit where it’s like I really wish that we were Lululemon
we’re not they’re so cool we’re not uh we’re function we’re not fashion and
so I think what this is me trying to get at okay can we serve 80% of American
America, it, you know, American men is what we’re saying. It’s like we can
give away some of the extremes. It’s like there are very few people who just
can’t find a per or not a perfect but a really good fit between our athletic
and slim fits. Like we cater to most normal bodies of you walking through.
>> Uh, and we feel like we do our job if we cater to 80% of America,
>> not to everyone. Uh but if an opportunity presents itself to expand
upon those 80% or go from 80 to 85, it’s like, oh, we’ll look at it if we
think sell through can warrant it and so we’ll dip our toes in the water. So
like Talls was the first expansion. >> Justin White, we live in Utah. I
didn’t realize that there as many tall bodies, tall skinny bodies as there
are. >> Uh but there are. And you just look in this room, me, you fit.
I don’t fit in that Solomon. Yes, you. Yes. How tall are you? 6’4. >>
6’4. Yeah. >> Yeah. And it’s I mean, it’s just a very common body type
here. And it’s like, oh, we sell a lot to Utah. So, we came out with 2,000
3,000 units of talls. They sold out really fast and they were less
cannibalistic than we thought. It’s like, oh, it’s additive. >> Oh,
>> okay. We’re fine selling out now. Let’s go again. So, all that to be
said, that was way longer than you asked. It’s like, okay, if we when we
launch something, can we serve most body types? If yes, great. Uh if that
opportunity proves to be redot or there’s one that we’re missing that we
think we can test, let’s dip our toe in the water. We’re fine stocking out
immediately. Let’s just see if it’s a winner or a loser. We’ve had plenty of
losers and so we’re trying to learn from the past where we ordered 40,000
pants. It’s like, oh, that’s going to be three years of inventory. We don’t
want to do that again. So, let’s order 12 days of inventory of talls and see
if it’s a real >> thing. So, I don’t even know what your question was
and I’m getting so just all over the place on this. >> It’s great. No,
it’s fantastic. I have a I have a lot more questions about that and I love
your your marketing um and I love your messaging and we’ll talk about that a
little bit more as we go on as we start talking more. We started off on the
company. We’re going to we’re going to rewind a little bit and go back to
your kind of where you started and what you really wanted to be when you grew
up. Maybe it was a shirt manufacturer. I don’t know. >> No. Uh I know
exactly what I wanted to be. Well, there were two. One to be a pro soccer
player. I found out >> You grew up in Utah? >> No, I grew up uh
in Southeast Asia. So my dad did management consulting. >> Uh so hence
the dress shirts every day. Um so I was in Beijing for eight years, Taiwan
for three, Utah for my sixth grade year of school, Hong Kong for 5 years,
back to Utah my senior year of high school. So I’m kind of a Utah and kind of
not in any way. And which languages do you speak? >> Uh, I was pretty
good at Mandarin until I served a mission in the Philippines. And I’m not
smart enough to know three really well. So >> So you had to let one go.
>> Yeah. So Chinese kind of got the boot. >> So you’re still good
at Mandarin and No. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So English is that the
one you >> Yep. Uh and so yeah, grew grew up in Southeast Asia. Never
thought >> um I didn’t love entrepreneurship. Uh I have a brother who’s
12 years older than me who’s an entrepreneur an entrepreneur and that
lifestyle never seemed very fun to me. I was like man it is a holiday and you
are on your laptop coding. He’s a technical guy so it’s completely different
like this you’re totally stressed this does not seem fun. >> Uh does he
do that? Does he code? Does he find like if he had a choice to go see the
next Mission Impossible movie or to code? He’ll bring his laptop into the
theater. That’s not even a joke. So, uh, >> yeah, that’s probably the
right. >> No, that that’s exactly what he would do. Um, >> and I
just never thought that was that great like of a sty a lifestyle. I was like,
that doesn’t seem that fun to me. Uh, so I wanted to be a pro soccer player.
I found out I wasn’t good enough, but I was good enough to be a division one
soccer player. >> I know. Which is amazing. Played at the University of
Kentucky. Finished up at uh Utah Valley University. >> Yep. >>
Excellent. >> So, I knew I wanted to play division one soccer. That’s
why I didn’t go to BYU, Brigham Y. Young University. Every single person I’m
related to is a Cougar. Uh, I woke up every morning to rise and shout. Uh, I
actually could have gone to BYU for much cheaper than either of those other
schools. >> Uh, but uh, I really wanted to play soccer as long as I
could. >> Yeah. >> So, I found out I couldn’t do that. But the
other dream that was always adjacent was to be the head of soccer for Nike. I
mean, it was a very specific dream. So, the global soccer department at Nike,
that was my dream. I wanted to head that up. Uh, so I mean I could tell you
anything about I’m a sucker for marketing. You tell me. You’ve watched
Sandlot, I’m assuming. >> Yeah. >> So when when he brings out Ben
Benny the Jet Rodriguez brings out the PF flyers that make a kid run faster
and jump higher. >> Mhm. >> I I listen to that. I buy that.
>> Uh I’m in. >> And it definitely works. >> Yeah. And it’s
like, hey, you tell me a soccer cleat is going to help with its little fins
is going to help me curve the ball 12% better. It’s like, oh, great. So much
so that I actually started a blog. Uh, >> I know. And this is a great
story. >> This is my favorite business. I could talk about this one for
way longer. >> The name of this company was >> soccerreviews.com.
>> Uh, by the way, you mentioned that your older brother, like you’re
like, I don’t want to live that lifestyle. But your older brother is
significant in your business life. like he’s given you all of this great
advice, including >> he was relevant in in starting this blog. >>
Oh, yeah. He wants he wants to be on my board of adviserss. Uh and he very
much is. Um so yeah, he I I can tell this story in less than 60 seconds. My
parent, you’re you’re a soccer dad. >> Yeah. >> Um do you know
how much a like a nice pair of soccer cleat costs? A professional pair?
>> $200 $250. >> You’re good. Yep. Right in that range. And
actually the inflation when I was playing in high school is like 180 and then
it slowly crept up to 200. >> So now it’s found another 50 bucks on
that. >> But you’re Yeah, you’re right on the right on the dot.
>> Uh and I got Nike Nike’s new Wayne Rooney cleat uh in 2008. That was
$200. And by I got it, my parents bought it for me. Uh two months later,
Adidas came out with their special cleat for Lionel Messi. Mhm. >> I
was like, “I need mom, dad. I need this.” >> Mhm. >> Uh
like, “Well, the other pair’s perfectly fine, >> but what’s
wrong?” And I was like, “No, but I need it.” >> Uh and
they were like, “Okay, well, you can work for it.” So, I started
doing like odd jobs, horrible like just bluecollar garbage jobs. And I’d get
five bucks here, 10 bucks there for cleaning out trash cans. I didn’t do it
in a businessoriented way. I was just looking to get 200 bucks. like this is
horrible. >> Uh I think >> that’s a lot of trash. >> Yeah.
I think I quit like $120 in. And my brother was like, “Hey, you spend all
your time talking about soccer or looking at soccer cleat and stuff anyway.
You might as well blog about it.” Uh and one day maybe Nike or Adidas
will send you those free cleats. >> Uh >> so he sent me up on
WordPress at the time. >> Uh I was like, “Just start writing,
start blogging.” Looking back at it, I was like, I was an early
influencer. >> How old were you at this point? >> So 13. >>
This is when you’re 13 years old. And did you have some proclivity for
writing? >> So I do love writing. Uh and so that was that came easy to
me. >> And so I just sat down. I would there would be opeds. I’d be
like, “Hey, at first it was very equipmentoriented, but then I needed to
turn out more content.” So then it became a little bit broader. It
wasn’t just anytime Nike would release their new cleat or new color for the
existing cleat. It’ be like, “Hey, once a week, let’s talk about what
and take pictures from Getty Images. What picture or what cleat interesting
cleat are players around the world wearing?” >> So, Golf Digest
does a little segment called what’s in what’s in their bag. So, they do a
professional golfer and they do all the clubs. >> Yeah. >> Something
like this for what the player is wearing. Okay. So, give me an can you can
you give me an early what an early blog entry might sound like? >>
Yeah, of course. I mean, the very early ones were and and you know, I was
covering brands that you don’t even know exist because they were the ones who
would give me information early on the press releases and stuff. So half of
them are bankrupt now. But there was this this Australian brand that was made
out of uh it was made out of kangaroo leather, but it was like anyway there
>> called >> uh no miss. N O M I S. No miss. They don’t exist.
>> Miss was it supposed to be like you’re never going to miss? >>
I didn’t think about that until I said it and you reacted that way and it
probably was. Uh and I’d say hey no again no one actually cares about this.
people want to know what Nike and are coming out with. But again, Nomus has
come out with their new 2020, you know, the new 2014 uh yellow bumblebee
edition cleat. Here are the details. They weigh this much. Uh they have this
stud configuration. This is what the upper is made of. The insole is
removable, not removable. Uh so I wouldn’t even have the product in hand. And
then it evolved into I would get the product uh and then I would do a review
and then I tried to make it an objective type review where it’s like hey on
as stand on as standardized of a scale as possible how does this stack up
against other things. The big breakthrough came when we started releasing
unreleased images of next year’s catalog and Nike and Adidas started to get
very nice to us to stop as the first time I’ve ever given it to bribery. I
don’t think I’ve ever said that publicly. It wasn’t real bribery, but they’re
like, “Hey, it was just it was like light bribery light >> cuz
there was no legal recourse. I was just so Yeah. So, I was just reposting
stuff that I don’t know who would email them into us, but people would email
in and be like, “Hey, this is Adidas’s new 2026 cleat if we were in
today. This is what it looks like.” >> So, some anonymous source
was sending you >> and lots of different it was almost crowdsourced.
And so, for example, stuff that was going to come out that hadn’t been.
>> Yeah. And I didn’t ever think about I was like, “Oh, where are
they procuring this until I was committed to division one soccer?” Uh,
and my senior year of high school, it’s like November, so I’m still 10 months
out from reporting to campus, I got Nike’s catalog for next year’s equipment
for me to choose my gear from. >> So, it could have been sources like
that. And that makes sense. So, for my freshman season, the University of
Kentucky, I got I got three free pair. Yeah. Nike school. I got three feet
free pairs of cleats. >> Soft ground, firm ground, and then another
pair of firm ground. We don’t have to go into details. >> And so I got
Nike’s 201 well at the time 2013 catalog in 2012. Hey, these are the
colorways. Which one do you want? Do you want the blue, green? Do you want
the orange, yellow, whatever? >> So that stuff was existing and people
would just email it to us. So we started posting that and we created this
unreleased boot calendar. So I could people I mean we’re getting two 300,000
unique site visits per month, which at the time was pretty good. uh and
really rich quality traffic. Um looking to see what 20 next year’s boot
calendar would look like. So then I’m like ah I don’t want to buy cleats this
year cuz that color way next February looks awesome. >> Uh so yeah, it
went really well. Uh never monetized it. That’s my big lesson. >> I was
just going to ask. >> Yeah. So we we did affiliate links and made a
couple bucks here and there. Technically I sold the business. I think I sold
it for 20 grand. >> Mhm. Uh there were offers when I was in 10th grade
for like 250 300,000. I should have taken the money and run. Uh companies
were offering to buy your >> Yeah. So, >> and why didn’t you sell
it at that point? >> Uh I don’t know. I just loved it so much. And I
guess I I didn’t I never built that one for What I loved about that one. It
was never built for money. It was built to get me free cleats. And I got so
many free cleats. We ended up getting 15 16 uh employees on that one really
all doing it for free people just like me around the world. So he had I think
10 technically nationalities represented whereas like oh a Scottish kid he
just wants free cleats too. So if he would write x number of pieces per month
>> uhhu >> uh he would get y number of equipment pieces so cleat
or gloves or whatever uh per month in exchange and like as a kid that’s the
best payment there is. That was pretty much >> So I think I loved that
one because it was passion. But my Yeah. If I could have had 250 grand of my
own cash in whatever year that was, 2010 as a 10th grader, I would not be
living in the home I’m living in now. Uh but but that was anyway that was the
business and uh that is what helped inform you know what is end color today
in terms of I mean or not inform but that gave me the seed money just selling
it for you know a couple bucks. Uh, I was able to put all of that into the
first PO at Ancller, but I actually had the idea for Ancller at the same time
as the reviews thing. >> Yeah. >> Uh, I just didn’t have the cash
where the content was free. I paid whatever five bucks a month to WordPress
>> to host the site. >> Uh, but I gotQS. I was in Hong Kong at
the time. I gotQS for Under Armour dress shirts cuz Under Armour had just
come out. Uh, and my parents allowance didn’t cover 5,000 10,000 units at the
time of spandex dress shirts. Uh, so that’s why I went with the blogging
idea. Uh, >> so you had you were in you were doing research. You had
figured out like this is what I want to do. I want to But why did you want to
create a dress shirt? What was the You’re 13 years old, right? >> So
under >> Did you have to wear a dress shirt for some specific purpose?
So sun Sundays and then school uniforms. Uh those weren’t Yeah. So school
uniforms uniforms in Hong Kong’s got their British society school system. And
so I’d wear dress shirts, wear them to church. So I was wearing them for
whatever reason. My, you know, pubescent my biggest problem as a
uncomfortable 13-year-old was were my dress shirts. So I was like and Under
Armour had just come out. I was walking around the streets of Hong Kong
wearing Do Do you remember when Under Armour came out? They had the
turtleneck with the UA. >> Very prominent here. >> Yeah,
absolutely. >> And that was the first time I ever really felt synthetic
fabric. I was like, “This is awesome. I’d wear that under my school
uniform. I was such a bozo. I feel bad for my parents having me walk around
the streets of Hong Kong just wearing spandex.” >> But you were
you wearing spandex alone? >> Were you wearing the turtleneck by itself
or you were wearing >> No. No. I’d wear I’d wear it underneath.
>> Isn’t it pretty hot and humid in Southeast Asia? >> Yeah, it
is. But I just loved that fabric. >> And I mean, they did have the
technically the cooling one, too. >> I know. >> But it it doesn’t
cool you really >> gear and the heat gear and nice. I still underarm.
And I just was like, man, this is awesome. So, if I was doing a pitch deck to
you today, you’re an investor in 20 2009 or whenever I first created the wick
sweat logo. That that was my brand name, Wikah Sweat. It uh was an Under
Armour dress shirt. I would have told you the Under Armour dress shirt and
it’s a polyester spandex dress shirt. So, I had the idea, went with the
soccer route, soccer blogging route, which I’m very glad I did, but it was
always there. Wick a sweat. I’d talk about it kind of jokingly every time I’d
have to throw a dress shirt on. I’m like, “Hey, wicked a sweat.”
Then I went on a LDS mission to the Philippines where I wore a dress shirt
every day for two years. >> It was the usual cotton dress shirt that
just wasn’t built for a 19-year-old sweaty 19-year-old trudging around humid
Philippines. >> Yeah. >> Uh and I was like, “Man, that
wicked sweat idea is not a bad one.” I came home uh and I was at the
Utah Valley University and you know you do school projects and they’re like,
“Hey, do a case study or a marketing plan on a company of your
choice.” Like, “Well, I might as well do it on my own company
instead of just doing another one for Nike that no one will ever see.”
Uh, and I love Nike. Um, so I yeah, start started the business. I went to
that same older brother. I was like, “Hey, I want wicked sweat to happen.
and how do I make it happen? Cuz he for a little bit dabbled with sourcing
stuff from China, like as a independent consultant. >> Ah >> uh I
was like, “Hey, I’ve got a dress shirt that I like the look of. I’ve got
the RSL Rail Salt Lake jersey soccer jersey >> in that material.”
>> Yeah. So that >> I I wish we could talk for 30 minutes about
the design process, but that was the design process. I said, “Take this
fabric, take this dress shirt, smash it.” >> You wish we could
talk about it for 30 minutes, but there’s not 30 minutes of material. There’s
literally what I just said. That was it. Less than 10 seconds. I said,
“Sucker jersey, good-looking dress shirt, smush it together.”
>> And >> yeah, you know how many times we hear on this podcast
about business owners and entrepreneurs who who make their like product
decisions or marketing decisions or whatever, especially early on just on
like a gut like no data, nothing, just a gut feel. We had guests on the other
day um started it’s it’s a well it’s a company called Ivy City Co. I don’t
know if you’ve heard of it but very familiar local I’ve spent a lot of money
there. >> Okay that’s also a familiar theme whenever I say Ivy City Co.
People are like oh my gosh I’ve spent a lot of money there every time.
Anyway, >> so that that’s what they said like one of their early
decisions about how much inventory they should order. They were like I don’t
know like 2400 units. Does that sound? Yeah, that sounds good. >> No, I
mean just a gut a gut feel on it. That’s kind of yours. There wasn’t
necessarily. Well, maybe in your program at UVU, were you were you like a
business marketing? >> Both. I don’t actually remember. One was a
major, one was a minor. I don’t know which one was which. Business marketing.
>> It was they’re all mixed up in there. Okay. Um so maybe you did some
market research in your project about like you know 80% of the country would
me men in this country in this age range none of that occurred >> I
guess is that what you’re >> tell technically probably occurred in a
paper yeah but that one was to get a grade and not >> I don’t remember
a single it wasn’t real >> so there’s >> so this was academic
market there’s academic market research so you can get an A. By the way,
>> if you didn’t know, >> 4.0 student, right? >> Decent.
Yeah, decent grades. >> That’s Well, 4.0’s. >> Yeah. >> And
And uh what was the what was the specific award you received as you were
student athlete and you got a 4.0. You were the honors. >> Oh, yeah.
You got a couple things here and there like all conference, academic, all
conference and stuff. never uh athletic all conference unfortunately >>
which is what you actually kind of sign up for but >> you still get to
say all conference. >> Yeah. Yeah. That’s what I tell people. Yeah. I’m
like yeah I’m all conference >> for grades. >> You had a high Did
you tell people that too? I had a high soccer IQ. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. That’s what I say. Yeah. >> Yeah. I’m familiar. I know. I know.
I’m a great locker room presence is what coaches would always say, which is a
compliment, but I kind of also inferred the insult where it’s like, oh, no
one has ever said I was a great uh onfield presence. >> Would you Okay,
so let me ask you that the this question. Uh, would you rather be the super a
superstar who nobody likes or would you rather be like a good contributing
player and people gravitate toward you? >> I mean the way you put it
that way for sure the second uh >> Did you ever play with guys like
that? >> Oh yeah, of course. I I think that’s the interesting and I had
a specific moment that I’ve never really shared but uh it’s this interesting
thing the funnel and you talk about the total number of quantity of players
in like the US soccer system >> you go from basically every kid almost
nowadays plays soccer >> I know >> you know the local wreck
leagues at least the city >> and it’s like okay let’s call it there’s
20 million youth soccer players and I don’t know 10 million youth soccer
players in America. Then however many quit along the way or choose something
else, >> whatever percentage make it to uh high school. >> Of
those that percentage that make it to high school, I think the number is 3%
or 2% make it to an NCAA collegiate and and whatever smaller percentage of
division one. >> It’s this interesting thing where everyone was the
star on their team. So >> everyone was that guy. even if they’re
likable or unlikable, but everyone was the star. And then you get to this
role where everyone was the star and it it is this like amazing separation of
the wheat and the chaff where it’s like in terms of personality. >>
Sure. >> Where it’s like, okay, it’s really humbling because unless
you’re the best in America, you’re probably not going to start or star as a
freshman. >> Mhm. >> It’s like a big humble pill to swallow and
you’re the best for 18 years prior. >> And then you’re not. >>
And then you’re not. >> Yeah. And it’s like it one and at first and
this is normal for everyone. You’re like a coach it’s the coach’s fault for
the first time it’s the coach’s fault. It’s like no it’s not. The univer
university of KY’s made an elite eight in the pa