How to Scale Resilience: From Foster Care to CEO

Don’t you think most people just think, I hope I leave the world just a little bit f better than I found it. Welcome to the Know Your Ship podcast presented by E-Hub. I’m your host, Frank Dolce. Like people think I work a lot. I just think I do something I love a lot. I kind of have this rule like I’m on 7 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. and I hear like, “Oh my gosh, you work so much.” because I don’t take lots of days off. I take like increments of time off which keeps me super balanced. So Wednesdays I don’t go into the office till almost 11. Um because I have a routine I do on

Wednesdays. But I’m just always available until the 7 to 7 unless I’m doing something with like my children or whatever. But um I just feel like it’s about the moments of time. So when I get home, you know, I’m like, “Hey, I’m I’m an Alexa girl. Hey Alexa, turn on classic rock and I just kind of want to hear like some Mhm. Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd. It just kind of starts to ease me into home. Yeah. Gets me integrated back in. Make dinner. Kids come over. It’s kind of, you know, it’s like family time. We have game time. And game time, you got to ramp it back up cuz my children are adults. So, you

know, the games we play are not little kid games anymore. They’re kind of It’s no shoots and ladders. I guess that’s for the six-year-old, but grandchild. I guess we ought to introduce our guest. We should probably get to that point. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Hi, I’m Celeste. She did it for us, Celeste Edmonds. She is the CEO of the Christmas Box International. She’s an award-winning author. Is that fair to say? Wow. Where’s the book? I have won some awards, but there you go. Yeah, they’re mainly There you go. Point that at the camera. The garbage bag girl. She is. I was seven. There. Oh, so cute. And uh and uh have you have another book coming

out? I do. The boy who was raised in the sunflower patch. It’s about resilience. That’s your Is that your boy? The boy would be me. Well, would be me in boy form, but I there’s a I do have a why. Um why a boy? Cuz people are like, “You’re but you’re a girl.” You’re right. I am. However, um the book Garbage Bag Girl opened up a door that I didn’t see coming. And that was the effects to men it would have. I was like, “Oh, it’s naturally going to gravitate towards women and foster care kids.” And you know what I mean? I had kind of like my idea of it. And I had because the

second to the most difficult chapter, but when I wrote it, it was the hardest at the time was saying goodbye to my father, my biological father. I cried so hard I just had to put the laptop down and just let it go. And um so I have fathers that reach out, especially if they’ve been incarcerated and are out of prison. I’ve met at coffee shops, public places. I’m a safe girl. um spoken to groups uh that are formerly incarcerated and it’s for them they thank me for sharing the the father perspective of losing their children because we we kind of just have this general take of well you’re getting what you asked for and karma

really sucks and I think there’s just a little bit of a a really bad rap and some I’m sure very deserving of that but I don’t think all. And I also think, you know, love is love. And when I get to the nitty-gritty of what’s really bothering them, it’s that um they they’ll never know how to mend that gap that’s been lost in that relationship that maybe doesn’t exist still. And the the moment I say to them, as a daughter of a father who was incarcerated, the one thing I can promise you wholeheartedly is they haven’t stopped loving you. Yeah, they’re angry at you, probably justifiably so, and on their own time, they’re working through

the things that you guys have managed or had to deal with, but the the love is is there. And and I believe it’s there. And I I think they they don’t know how to work through that well. And they just sobb. It’s like they just want want to know that they’re still worthy of love. And I think everybody is. um it doesn’t justify bad behavior, but love is love. And um so I’ve had a lot of people write me and in child welfare, this the work space that I’m in, uh boys, little boys and and teenage boys, just boys in general are are talked about significantly less than girls. It’s poor little girls. that it

isn’t that they don’t matter supposed to be strong but but we just kind of overlook you know and you can go through a I’m sure your world too Preston there’s just a lot of domestic violence and and suicide and and all the things that get it happens to girls and we want to talk to girls about it and we feel more heartfelt about girls and the reality reality is the the statistics of things happen to men are startling and um and so the moment And I had the this cool inspiration cuz I was at a writing retreat with the intention of writing the second book to Garbage Bag Girl. Cuz you know there’s 25 more

years of Crazy Celeste. And um the pro the coach, the writing coach says, “I’m going to give you a prompt.” And she looks right at me and she says, “You’re probably not going to like it.” I’m like, “Oh, well then don’t give it to me. Nobody likes to hear that.” And she says, “It’s Once Upon a Time.” And I’m like, “Yeah, you’re right. If you’ve read my book, you’ll know I’m really not a fantasy girl. I kind of get right to it. And she said, “This is going to be really good for you. In the two days I’ve spent with you, I think this is going to be really good for you.” So, we happen

to be in Moab, one of my favorite places. Go into the Red Rock, ground myself, you know, meditate, big believer and all that. And um I write once upon a time and immediately once upon a time there was a boy who was raised in a sunflower patch. I’m like, “What the Where did that come from? Thank you, universe. I’m sure I’m supposed to be aligned some here. We’re here.” And and so I just write this little fable. And the next day, our last and final day with the group, we’re supposed to pick something to read from our four days of retreating. And I tell the the 12 people around the table, I’m like, “I’m just

going to read this silly little thing. It’s no big deal.” And I read it and they’re all super quiet. And you know, I’m like, “Oh, they don’t want to hurt my feelings. That’s okay. It’s fine. I’ve only written one book. Ease up. And um the woman across from me says, “That’s amazing.” And then the one to the right says, “I think you just wrote a children’s book.” And I’m like, “Oh, that’s cute. I don’t write children’s books. Like I just, you know, garbage bag girl is like really not a kids book. Matter of fact, I recommend you be 16 or older with a parent consent.” And um my friend that invited me that sitting across

from me says, “Oh, Celeste, I don’t think you know the girl, the woman to your right, but she’s written 15 children’s book and she’s a best-selling children’s book author and she’s a children’s editor. You might want to listen to her.” And I was like, “Wow, Jennifer, thanks for the compliment.” So, I just decided to kind of go with it. and it took off and my co-author Richard Evans and I started talking about my most favorite thing to talk about which is resilience for for human beings and especially with children. Um because you know the one thing I don’t think anybody’s going to argue is that there’s only one thing we have besides the story we

haven’t learned about each other yet that keep us similar and that is we’ll all experience change. Mhm. It’s a one common denominator we all have. People can avoid their taxes. They can not work. They can do all the things that we’re all supposed to do, but change inevitably will happen. And that ability to adapt to it and and and move with the flow of that and the skill set to do that productively to me is one of the greatest gifts we can we can teach our children and ourselves as we as we navigate a really tough world. That’s amazing. really looking forward to the second book. Uh I’d like to try to accomplish two things

in this podcast. One is uh obviously we want to know about you and your background and how you arrived here today and we want to know about the Christmas box international and how people can well learn about it and become involved with that organization. So if we can let’s just start with your role at the Christmas box international. What is the organization? What is it all about? And then maybe we can go back to to your to your story and and what led you to that. Absolutely. When did you re meet Richard and how’s that based on the book? That would be great for the listeners. So, the Christmas Box International is um excitingly 29

years strong. This year we’ve served over 170,000 children, which is an enormous number to get your head around. So I tell people it would fill Madison Square Garden seven and a half times cuz it kind of or every stadium in Utah. It’s um it’s a lot of children and that’s all US. Yeah. Is that international or it’s all the things 170,000 total. We serve about 14,000 a year now. Um we have seven programs. Um people think of the shelters because they’re visible the Christmas box houses and critically important. They help um children who have been removed from their homes, parental rights have been removed for abuse, neglect, trafficking, or homelessness. Mhm. And it does surprise

people. They tell me we don’t have trafficking in Utah, and we do. Actually, there’s not statistically a state that doesn’t, but we’ve had a three-year-old come into the Christmas Box House um emergency shelter for trafficking. So, we do have that. And um we the uniqueness to the Christmas box emergency shelters is not the shelter component because Utah has a lot of shelters. The uniqueness is that we keep the whole child through the age of 18. And most shelters can only license through the age of 12 for children. Um and so what happens to the kids over the age of 12, uh like me and my brother and sister, they’re separated. And if you’re especially like

me and you were the oldest and absolutely would have said you were the mom for many reasons, it it’s like losing your children literally. And I didn’t I didn’t realize the depth of that until I was in my 30s having my little midlife crisis, which is real. If you read my book, you would know 30 would 35 would be about right time to do that. And um I had a therapist say to me um you lost your children. You didn’t just you lose siblings. And when I really started processing the the depth of that loss, I was like oh that makes much more sense on how I feel about things and respond to certain things

with my own children and you know all that comes with that. So we keep a thousand siblings together every year between the three shelters in Moab, Salt Lake and Ogden. And that’s substantial. I think it’s the greatest gift we can give them when they’re going to lose everything else. Parents, often times extended family members, the schools they’re going to, all the stuff they leave behind, excuse me, all the, you know, all the stuff from whatever home they’re in, they’re going to come into the shelters with everything that they have on um is going to be it. So, where do all their essential items come in? And that’s where our nonprofit uh partners with the state.

So the state is responsible for the day-to-day programming, housing, food, and then we partner with the community to bring all the essential resources, toys, books, clothes, hygiene kits, back to school items. I always tell people if your kids need it, so do the Christmas box, house kids. And we provide that for the whole child when they come in and then when they go to their next placement. So that means we process about $800,000 of inkind donations a year. And not all children stay in shelter. some um will still just need services that the state offers families. And so we also provide items through those to those families. And we do that through our 22 resource

rooms which are located in 24 of our you Utah 29 counties. We’ll be in all 29 counties in the next year and a half, which will mean we will serve all 1100 case workers in the state of Utah, meaning all children will have access to what they need through those case workers. So, those are those are two pro uh programs that we have this coming holiday season is our is our big project elf. We’ve already launched that. Um and that’s to uh provide 3,000 children with Christmas. But our our largest program um sometimes surprises people, but 7,000 children a year we help through our partnershare. And that is in that $800,000 of items we process.

We recovering from a cold. Apologize. Jeez. We have a donation center in South Salt Lake where we process all that. And we have um what we know is a life cycle of about 8 months whether we will use an item or not. So once we source to the shelters, then we source to the resource rooms, it’s about 8 months. And we kind of have this general idea like, okay, we don’t need this to sit on the shelf and get wasted. It needs to go in the hands of a family. So we now have 123 community partners that basically come shop at our donation center in the spring and fall for whatever they need. If we

have it, they can have it. And what what’s happening is this beautiful alignment and collaboration that Preston is knows very much about is the moment you collaborate and align with other nonprofits, you recognize the shared resources, you wouldn’t have recognized staying isolated. you know, we will have somebody come pick up donations and I made what I thought was remarkably funny joke two Christmases ago that we would get 700 Barbies. Well, we got like 600 and some change and my programs manager was like, “That’s what you’re throwing into the universe, Celeste, like of all the things, you know, you can put in there, maybe think of something else. What are we going to do with all

these Barbies?” And I was like, “The partner shares. Someone’s going to use them.” And so, we did use all those, but uh and helped share them out. But the beautiful thing was um we had a partner come in who said, “God, we have this palette of like boys jeans.” And I’m like, “We didn’t get one size 13 boy jean this entire holiday season.” And they had like this whole pallet on. So that’s what starts to happen is just the shared space. And I think when we look at um you know what’s going on now with lack of funding and pullbacks and gosh government shutdown and just all the things all the craziness even and and

all that coming out of CO um there’s such a lack of resources already and um so for nonprofits to to really kind of buck up and get creative and figure out how we work within a system we have it it really does start to pull that together and you get you either get better or you fall behind. And we’re going to see that, you know, a lot in the next 12 to 18 months. Just a unfortunately nonprofits that for whatever reason or another are not going to survive. The Utah nonprofits association expects a good 75% will will not survive it. And so we’ll kind of see how that plays out. But how does SNAP benefits

play? And I know you this is probably a question you get a lot this last two weeks. Yeah. I mean, I think of like the food banks and and and how hard that is for them to need more and then you have an economy that can’t support more. And it’s it’s hard. It’s very complicated. And we’re already seeing with that program, families needing to come up with even though we don’t help with food and we help with other things, as they’re realigning their budget for food, they’re having a gap in the other items. and we’re already having nonprofits reach out that we never heard from before saying, “Hey, do you have anything to help us

out?” And and that’s how we get affected. And so with over 11,000 nonprofits in this community alone, you know, Utah’s one of the most philanthropic states, we’re going to see pressures between each other. And I just kind of have this always overlooking view that it isn’t about you. You have to keep perspective that it isn’t about competition, it’s about collaboration. It’s the wrong sea that you’re Yeah. Cooperation is huge. Yeah. Cooperation. Collaboration. It’s just it’s necessary. Um otherwise we’re going to fall in the nonprofit sector. Yeah. So, so Christmas box is is that we we work with the state as our number one partner and then other nonprofits to basically fill gaps. That’s I always

remind my team that is why we exist. That’s why we formed as a 501c3 is to look at gaps in the system. How do we take resources and allocate them where they need uh where they’re needed within mostly the child welfare space in prevention or in in crisis. And so um I got involved because 31 years ago, oh my goodness, um I started working for our founder Richard Paul Evans. He wrote a little green book called The Christmas Box. And I was pregnant and un about to be unemployed. And I had befriended um a a guy that worked for him, Craig. And I was basically just handing my resume out. I was 21. Yeah. So

that was a long time ago. And um dating myself for sure. And I was like, you know what? Just pass these out. like make it rain with my resume all over this building. And he did. And Richard Pivans came over um peeking his head in my office across the hall like waving the resume, you know, whispering, “Come talk to me on break kind of thing.” And I was like, “Okay, I don’t even know who you are.” So I walk across the hall um that afternoon and he held up this little green book and he says, “Have you heard of this?” “Nope, sorry, sure.” And he’s like, “Well, what’s on this resume? um I really need

in terms of your ability to book travel around the world and I’m about to go on a book tour and I don’t know what I’m doing and I really need these skills and will you read it to I need you to read it tonight? And I was like okay. So I went home and I said to my husband at the time I think I just had the most bizarre job interview of my life but I’m supposed to read this book. It’s only 13,000 words. I’m going to get through it. So I read it. I go back the next day. He doesn’t believe me. Quizzes me. We still talk about that today. and I passed with

flying colors and he basically offers me a job. I tell him, “Hey, you can’t see it yet, but I’m five months pregnant, so I feel like that I need to throw that on the table.” He’s like, “Not necessary, but thank you.” But it worked out well. I started working for him and about 2 and 1/2 years in. So, the Christmas box itself is a is a miracle. He wrote that book for his at the time two daughters. um has five children today, but two daughters as an expression of I just want to tell them that I love them. He’d lost a state legislature by one tenth of one point. He was a political marketing guy.

I didn’t know one/10enth of one point was a thing, but it is. And he um he decides to write this book. He prints 20 copies. He hands them out for Christmas. And within weeks, he starts getting calls about this book affecting people’s lives. And he’s like, “I’m sorry. I don’t know who you are. And they’re like, well, I’m so and so and I got the book from so and so. So he takes a steno pad, you know, way before the phone day. And he kind of does the 1 2 3 4 scratch five and he starts adding up how many calls he gets. And within about a twoe period, he gets about 150 calls from

people saying this little book changed their life. And he was like, “Wow, wow, it’s crazy. Something’s something’s happening here. Maybe I should self-publish.” This is before social media. This is before social media, before Amazon. Yeah. I mean, nobody can imagine a world without Amazon. I get it. Word of mouth. Yeah. Word of mouth. And so, um, he says today like self-publishing is like being in the Olympics without a country. You kind of just run on the outside of. But he didn’t. You don’t know what you don’t know. Kind of like when we launched Christmas box and we didn’t know it would be hard to fund raise and build $2 million shelter. I mean, we didn’t

know. We were all really young. We were like, this is a need. And so he didn’t know and he tries to self-publish. We have this awesome binder of rejection letters, which is awesome now, but not at the time. And he decides, you know what? I can do it. He prints 20,000 copies. Like, who does that? Puts them in his garage, says, I’ll have Christmas gifts the rest of my life, and finds a local distributor who after two months calls and says, I need more books. And they’ve gone through them all. So the book becomes the second or the first book in history next to the Celestine prophecy at the time to hit the New York

Times bestseller as a self-published book and then everybody wanted the book miraculously and it he discovered this amazing agent who discovered the bridges of Madison County and was doing well. They partner up and he receives at the time the world’s largest author advance ever given and him and his wife decide, wow, after financial adviserss tell him they’re going to wreck their children’s lives with all this money that they need to give back. And so I remember sitting around about 2 and a half years into working for him, he knew enough about my personal story to start digging a little deeper about life in foster care. We decide we want to do something for children because

a book’s based on the loss of a child through death and we partner with the U of the Graduate School of Social Work. We invite 160 child welfare advocates and we literally have this super cool opportunity of having this influx of funding that’s private and this very ironic need of Utah being sued by the National Center for Youth Law in California for the mistreatment of children. I know we had um children dying in the foster care system and this the governor at the time and our our state human services department were being sued and um it was because we were basically taking children quickly and as a police officer told us I’m going to drop

this kiddo off at the first place that answers the phone. Not a good idea. But we didn’t have anything better and I moved every client. That’s right. Yeah. So, uh, we were formed, the Utah Foster Care Foundation was formed, um, as a nonprofit separate entity to recruit and retain foster families. And there was just a lot that came out of that. And this, we had this amazing moment of learning about collaboration, which was we first walk into this room of these 160 child welfare advocates, and no one was getting along. They were being weird about who sat next to each other. And I remember making the joke like, “Not the doctor in the room. Like

I recognize I’m the young girl in the room, but I’m pretty sure this was part of my problem growing up.” Like, I don’t know. I’m just going to throw that out there. And that’s really what was happening is there was the lack of collaboration, a lot of red tape, kids being moved very quickly into unstable environments. And so we launched the Christmas box based on the name of the book in initially. Um, and today it’s a blessing. we have these seven programs and all these children that are getting served. But Richard and I looked at each other and said, “This would be the one job that if one day somebody said, “You don’t have to

have it anymore. It would be awesome.” And unfortunately, that’s just not going to be the case. Every year we get more children. They’re harder to place. They’re because behavioral issues are increasing. Um and and it’s just it’s not going to go anywhere. And so we really do lean on our community to help us um raise these children as a village because I believe children should not be raised by a system and a and a and a structure of a of a shelter program. I think they’re supposed to be raised by a family. They’re supposed to be raised by a community and and love and nurturing. And so in the absence of that, you know, we

bring them into the shelter. And we have no ability to to change any trajectory of what’s already happened in their life. But our motto is that every child deserves a childhood. And the moment they step foot into our shelter, we very much can influence that. We can take an older child who um parents their their kids like me all the time and let somebody watch those kids while they just play on a playground for 30 minutes and they they kind of eyeball over like they keep an eye on the kids cuz they’re used to it. But to see them go down a slide and do like go on go on swings with without having to

watch their siblings is a new thing. and you kind of see their eyes light up like, “Oh, that’s possible.” Mhm. That’s hope. By the way, hope’s a resiliency skill. So, you could we just start to build, you know, on those little things that they start to discover. New items come into the shelter. We don’t take used, we take only new. And um the alumni, this is a beautiful thing. The alumni now after being 29 years strong, come back and they always share about the new item that they got when they came cuz it was the first new thing they ever had. Yeah. New Barbie. New Barbie. See those 700 Barbies. Um usually it’s a stuffed

animal. They’ll be like, “I saw Ricky the raccoon or whatever the stuffed animal’s name is.” um or that first outfit, which I liken to like us crazy moms that save the first outfit. Our kids come home. Yeah, we all know. And they didn’t have that. They didn’t have that level of connection. And they always like me borrowed and bartered and traded chores and did whatever they could to get that cute pair of shorts to visit their dad that Saturday. And when you don’t have something that is ever your own, like ever, you grow up from just moving like I did with the your stuff in a garbage sack every 6 months to believing your worth

is nothing more than the stuff you put in it. Mhm. So that leads me into the your next question of Yeah. Why me? You’re you’re uniquely qualified. Why me to to be to to be in this position? Well, as Nelson Mandela would say, why not you? But it’s deeper than that. It’s really about um finding that that thing that’s going to connect you to what you’re going to maybe do the rest of your life. Did you see that as trajectory or was it more like no, I want to go do something else? How did that kind of work into your life? Well, as a kid, I was certain that the only jobs I would ever

have had would have would be being a wife and a mother. There would be no other use for me. Um and and and and and I say that in a um now that’s a positive message, but at the time and the way I felt about it, it was just a job that was going to be handed down to me and and that maybe would be all I would be good for and whatever that would imply. And so that was my very quick path at the age of 17 of finding a guy and you know staying with him and having children and all the things. And then I meet Richard Evans and he was the first

he was the first mentor that I had that said you’re a diamond in the rough and there’s a lot going on there and I think um I think you’re going to do big things. And I was like, that’s really funny that you’d say that cuz um I’ve always been told growing up in in foster care that not only you lucky to get what you get, but you should um live in the home and accept what you get because older kids never get adopted anyway. And it’s like, you know, my my mom, my mom, my book’s dedicated to used to tell my grand my kids, her grandkids, get what you get and don’t throw a fit.

And it was kind of this little joke, but the reality is when you’re when you’re in that system all the time and that’s how people treat you, it is how you start to treat yourself and what you expect you’re going to do for your life. So when he first said it, I was like, “Yeah, I’m going to have to spend some time thinking about that.” But I just started getting good at other things. Uh organizing and rallying and um taking care of people was never a hard thing for me, but I was like, “Maybe I’m a little bit more than that. And what do I want to do with my life?” I did go to

law school for about a year. Left it because the the guy asked me to cuz that’s what I do. If somebody says I need you, then I drop everything and go do what they need. And not for Celeste. Not not 2.0 C, not Celeste today, but the other Celeste. And um so I I didn’t finish that and then I just kind of kept plugging along and every little job I had I just figured out. You know, we talked about grit uh a little bit offline and that’s that’s another big deal for me is is the getting gritty is really important. So, I was used to having to take care of myself and I just kind

of kept figuring it out, trudging along, making money, doing what I could. Um, very low selfworth. And then the Christmas box moment happens where we have this child welfare conference and I look at Richard and I said, “Oh, I went to open my mouth.” And he says, “I’m going to lose you to go do that, right?” And I was like, “Well, I’m not going that far. You’re the chairman of the organization, but yes, I want to not be your personal assistant, and I want to go raise money, and I want to build these shelters, and I want kids to have a better life than I had. I want them to have a path for what

that might look like. We can’t we can’t change what’s happened, but can we give them a path? Can we give them a vision? Can we give them hope? And literally the preocial media days, I mean, you knocked on people’s doors. And so that’s what we did every day. We knocked on people’s doors. We told them what we were doing. We asked him for a $10 check, which we got, which didn’t move the needle fast, but it was awesome. And I just kept plugging away, plugging away. And then about nine years into um the Christmas box, I there were several reasons. One, I’d become a single mom and I was like, “Yeah, it’s probably the most

money I’m ever going to make.” So, I went into corporate world, but I knew I didn’t want to grandfather into it. I knew I’d want to end up back in it, but I knew that um enough to know that I I I needed corporate skills. I felt that that would be really important. And I and I needed to know that I could still put on my big girl pants every day and and buck up and do something outside of this one person that gave me a shot. I kind of still needed to know. So I moved in. I stayed on the board. So that was nine years in and I went into the corporate sector

for 14 and it’s where and I started at ground zero. I mean I was at the top of my game in nonprofit. I went to zero at in the corporate space very scared. massive pay cut to start earning back up. And I realized I was very good at creating corporate giving programs. And I was really great at mentoring young women to feel good in the boardroom with their male counterparts. And I was great at activating people and creating communication platforms. And so I just met another CEO who gave me a beautiful opportunity. I didn’t have my bachelor’s yet and he said, “I don’t care. You’re going to do this.” believed in me. And so I

think there’s the the message behind all that is is the belief of somebody. When somebody has belief in you, you can believe more than yourself in than in yourself sometimes. And sometimes that’s enough to just spur you to like that next phase. Um is is that that belief. Um so I just I just kept plugging at it. And then about 5 years ago, Richard and Carrie Evans um called me and said, “How about you come back as executive director?” And I was like, “It’s time. You’re right.” So I did. So it’s like Simba grew up. Yeah. But I had to have marketing and management and um you know uh the women in leadership was going

to be a big deal because uh nonprofits is a big female dominated sector. And I wanted to be able to bring also this corporate mentality into the nonprofit sector. How do we love like a nonprofit but work like a corporation? And yeah, and I with the marketing dollars and and all the things that that nonprofits has have historically stayed away from, I’m I’m I’m opposite. If they’re acquiring a sales customer, I’m acquiring a a donor. And so, um it’s been it’s been fun to to marry the two and to help um other young nonprofit leaders like a gal that came to my office today. I spent time with her two weeks ago and I spent

more time with her today. I love to mentor young young leaders who are learning the fundraising game, who are just learning to kind of navigate how to how to get in it and um help them with their first event that’s coming this Saturday, how to fundra. And it’s it’s it’s a blessing. And I wouldn’t change if you read my story and you think, “Wow, that was hard.” Um, I get asked often like, “What would you change?” And I wouldn’t change one thing. I wouldn’t change one awful thing if it altered what I get to do today. I would not do it because um, every single lesson, every single hardship grows us into who we hope

we are going to become. Mhm. And I mean, in everything that we do in life, don’t you think most people just think, I hope I leave the world just a little bit f better than I found it. I mean, just a little bit is a lot. Mm-m. 10% better. I mean, whatever. 2% better, but a little bit better than I found it. And the Christmas box does that. Well, I think we could all benefit from having that sort of philosophy. I’m going to leave the world a little bit better than I found it. I think all too often these days we find out that people are more like I want people to remember who I

am like and and I don’t know if that is aligned with leaving the world in a better place. Maybe maybe you can align those two things. Speaking of alignment, how we’re not going to be able to talk about your story and if you want to know Celeste’s story, it’s amazing. It’s in this book. You should go pick it up. It is a fascinating story. But how has that and and I it’s a question I typically ask. You answered it. You wouldn’t change a thing. That’s a tough thing to say and a tough childhood to overcome. It took a while to say it. Yeah. That didn’t come fast. Yeah. But how has that experience what has

that experience given you that makes you so qualified to do what you’re doing today? And then and then I think this the other thing that you talked about is leaving that where you had gained some comfort to go into the corporate world and kind of start over because you knew that you had to get some more training to really explode in. I think every time you’re going to make a a change, you know, there’s always the thought of you can make too many changes. Like my mom would say, “Okay, Celeste, so they you know, they they say you should make no more than a few changes a year. I can count seven for you. Maybe

you should pivot. Yeah. She’s like, maybe maybe next year you can go ahead and add some more big changes because part of change for me on on the unhealthy side is because I moved every six months. Um I also started moving after I became a single mom moving my children every year and it wasn’t until because that was comfortable for me and changeental and change is comfortable for me. So, I thought that well, everybody would want to move once a year, right? Like, why would you not? You then it makes you not collect so much stuff you don’t need and you get a fresh start. And I’m I’m all about fresh starts. January is my

favorite month for that reason. I’m like, “Oh, yeah, rip the band-aid off. Throw it all out.” And everybody doesn’t do well with that. And nor should they. Um, it’s okay to also get grounded and root in. Now, we can become too stagnant and stay too long. Yeah. But I and I think also change is where growth is made. I think that’s how we stretch. It’s like when we talk about the muscles and all the things, you know, that you were talking about, we have to have that and it’s what makes us adaptable and do well. But like my daughter finally came to me and said, “Mom, cute.” She was super little at the time and

she says, “Do you think we could just stay here a little longer?” And I had that that parent moment of, “Oh, you know what? I found her village, but she was basically kindly saying to me, “Yeah, stop moving us.” And my mom called and said, “Hey, you know that um every time your kids come over, they bring me stuffed animals because you have your every six month cleanout and you make them throw stuff away that they don’t use and they’re sneaking things over.” And honey, some people attach to things and don’t get mad at them, but some people need to attach to things and and and I didn’t. I for me that’s uncomfortable because that’s

just something I have to let go of. Yeah. Was that part of the reason you named your book Garbage Bag because just you could fit it all in one bag and then and I moved every six months with my stuff in a garbage bag and that one black garbage bag became the only thing that was constant next to the sunflower which is about the next book. Um is that garbage bag was mine. It was new when I got it. It was um no nobody cared to even take it. It’s a garbage bag. And I had this very ceremonious moment of getting rid of it years back. You know, there might have been fire involved. I’m

not going to say out loud. But um now I wish I would have kept it. I would frame that because I had so much shame about being garbage bag girl. And today I have so much pride. Mhm. And I I would absolutely be framed in my office that that garbage bag. But you know it was meaningful at the time for you kind of thing. Yeah. So you know in a nutshell um the meaningful part of my work and and why that all my life mattered to doing what I do today is because in order to live a very purposeful driven a life on purpose you have to find that thing that drives you. And often

times it is your story more more than not it’s your story. And if you can find a piece of that story that allows you every day to share, man, your your your worlds ahead of people that is mundane doing that same thing they hate. And and Garbage Bag Girl is that it’s the story of the children we serve cuz people don’t get to meet them. They’re confidential. You rarely meet those children that you come serve at our shelters. So, Garbage Bag Girl gleans some insight and helps people understand who they’re giving to, who those kids are. Yeah. And you just have this understanding of what they’re experiencing. Yes. What they’re going through when they come

to the shelter and especially if they’re in the 7 8 9 10 age where my book mainly focuses on. Um, yes, it’s still triggering. I get asked that all the time like, “Is it hard?” Very, very hard. Um, but I’ve also learned the the skill sets to manage that, which is really really important for I think anybody to learn is that your your triggers are kind of your little best friends that are just reminding you of something you haven’t managed yet. You don’t be afraid of those. It’s so interesting. I’m so sorry. I know you have something on your mind, but we Okay, so we’re talking This is the e-hub gives a ship. This is

our nonprofit. I know our nonprofit podcast. The other podcast that we do is e-hub know your ship and we talk to business leaders. Yep. And you know foundational business principles and one of the things we talk about regularly lots of things overcoming obstacles in the corporate world. The obstacle is the way. Uh grit resilience and alignment. I think that’s so interesting that you talked about that alignment because you have taken your life experience and aligned it with your now purpose in life and that and and like you said earlier it’s not like you go to work you yes enjoy what you’re doing it’s a lifestyle and if people could find that in their life I

mean how much more productive and happy and fulfilled all of us it’s like work life balance doesn’t exist It’s just life balance. It’s just life balance. Yeah. I agree. It is. It is. Absolutely. And and that can be kind of scary, too, to try and find that because you’re in a job, maybe you make good money or you’re comfortable or whatever, but are you really aligned? Do you love what you’re doing every day? I think that’s amazing. And that you found that alignment and we always talk about that how important that is. But even in your work, sorry. It’s also you’re seeing resilience, but you’re also seeing really hard. Yes. Really hard. Really difficult. Oh,

oh my gosh. Yeah, it’s very hard. And so my office is across from a break room and um staff break room and sometimes that break room has to be used for parent visit room because the other one on the other side is full. And my door is always opened. Um, and so is that break room and it’s literally kitty corner like five steps and it in inevitably and this is just cuz this is how the universe works. I will be sitting at my desk and I will start hearing a 7 8 9year-old begging their mother to stop using drugs so they can go home. Begging. And somebody that hears that on the outside is like,

“Yeah, just stop using.” Really not that simple. There’s a lot going on in their life. There’s a lot with, you know, the substance abuse world that um they’re trapped in. So mom’s crying. She doesn’t know how to communicate why that’s hard. 8-year-old who has two younger siblings is just frankly pissed because now they’re the parent and they’re like, “Get it together.” And you know, and it’s and I’m immediately like, “Oh my gosh, I was that. I was totally that girl.” and I’m remembering that conversation and I’m I’m like I’m filling up my my body as it is right now, it will physically just start to alter and I just I take my my my deep

breaths in and out through my nose and I remind myself that I’m safe, that I have a life of purpose, that I’m loved, and that it is a blessing that these children can stay together and that we have what we have. This is this is not an this is not a negative experience. This is a blessing. And I just have to take the moment to remind myself because my initial re body reaction is run for your life as fast as you can. Go get in your car, go home, and do not sit here. That’s that’s just and and that’s with all things in life. The moment something hits us, it’s a natural re reaction to

not want to be in it. People don’t want to be uncomfortable. I mean, why do you want to be uncomfortable? Nobody does. But if you can’t sit in the uncomfortableness and you can’t n navigate your your path through um you can’t grow on the other side. You can’t come to the place of realizing I wouldn’t change a thing. Mhm. Because you’re still running from it. Um which is the greatest lesson I learned with my my book is I just had not processed everything I’d been through until I wrote that book. So, when you see your 8-year-olds last here. Yeah. Why did you choose this picture? And then what what would you tell your 8-year-old self?

Well, one, there was only two to choose from cuz I didn’t have pictures as a kid. Found it. Yeah. So, we we found two. And what you don’t see that you do see in the book is um my little sister is standing to the side holding my hand looking up at me, the sister that I protected or tried to. And um so that picture immediately went to how I felt when um I was raising her basically like that that was the epitome of Celeste right there. And um I I I wanted to show that I wanted to show that she she was being brave, which is exactly what I say to her now. There’s a

we don’t have time to go into it, but there’s a there’s a model called the adult the adult chair and it’s a it’s a process that you can go through to do just this, which is your healthy adult is speaking to your your child or the teenager. It’s always one or the other, right? You’re either not seen as a child or you’re throwing a fit as a as a teenager. And we act those out in adulthood. Think about any argument you get in and ask yourself what age you’re at when you feel that way. and you’re going to be a little kid and you’re not feeling seen or you’re going to be a teenager and

you’re throwing a temper tantrum. It’s always one or the other. So, as soon as I I was taught this model, which is remarkably helpful cuz I can even be driving down the road and I’m like, I can’t believe I have to have this annoying conversation with someone on my team. Like, we’ve talked about this six times and I’m having the moment we all have convulsion moment, right? I’m like, okay, how old are you right now, Celeste? 15. Okay, you’re not feeling heard. what are you going to say to your 15-year-old? And so for my seven-year-old in this picture, it was um the very first experience I had with the adult chair and my coach, it’s

it’s not a therapist, just a coach. She said she takes you through the whole process and she says, “I want you to approach.” So, you’re healthy adult. I want you to approach that seven-year-old. Tell me what she’s doing. I She’s looking at toys, wishing she could play, but she can’t. She’s got to watch her siblings and make sure they’re safe. Great. Would you like to approach her? Sure. So, this is like a 15-minute process, right? By the time I nerve up to go approach her, she says, um, does she does she want a hug? Nope, she doesn’t want a hug. Okay, respect the boundary. It’s a good lesson. Please tell her that she did a

really good job and she can be done now. And that’s what I told her. You did a really good job, Celeste, and you can be done. You’re done. You can be done with that job. And the lift that came, I would have never thought I would have never seen that coming because I didn’t know it was a thing. I didn’t know I was holding all that energy, but she helped me through it. And I was like, “Oh my gosh, I was still upset that I abandoned them, which I didn’t. I was taken away. They were taken away from me when I was eight.” Um, and I still felt bad as a mom that I left

them. And I finally got to tell her, you did a really good job and you get to be done. So can you can you interact this way with the kids who are in Yeah. If I get if Yeah. If I get the opportunity um like can you see that happening? Can you Yeah. Wow. Yeah. We had an autistic boy who was 10 come into the shelter and they’re they’re they’re harder to harder to place with the family, not just cuz they’re autistic, but they’re they’re very protective of their younger siblings. um cuz they happen to also be very intelligent. Mhm. And um he was watching his siblings play. Um and I just had this moment

of like here’s that moment. You get to go talk to him. So I walked over. I sit down where he’s sitting cuz I always go down to their level. And I was like, “Hey buddy, what’s up?” And he’s trying to excuse me. He’s just trying to be all cool about it. Oh, nothing. You know, I’m good 10-year-old fashion. Just watching my sister play. I was like, “Well, that’s cool. Is she Is she happy?” Oh, yeah. She’s happy. I was like, “Are you happy?” “No, no, I don’t get to be happy.” I was like, “Huh? Why? Why don’t you think you And this is where my favorite philosophy of getting curious kicks in.” I was like,

“Why don’t you feel like you get to be happy?” And he says, “Well, because I’m not supposed to be loved.” He’s 10 years old. And I was like, “Hm, so does your sister get to be happy?” “Oh, yeah. She gets to be so happy and I get to make sure she’s happy.” I like, “Does she get to be loved?” “Oh, yeah.” I was like, “Do you love her?” I love her the most. I mean, he’s just like 10, you know, and he’s so brave. I said, “So, if she gets to be happy and loved, why don’t you? like what makes you totally different from her? What sets you apart? You’re just you’re just not the

same. And he didn’t know. And he just sat and all of a sudden he just kind of laid his like head on my leg. He just wanted comfort. And I just rubbed his shoulder and I said, “You know, buddy, at your age there wasn’t a Christmas box house.” And so I was living with, you know, just who wherever family I could live in. And I had a little brother and sister too. And I made sure they were always happy. But I never made sure I was happy. And you know what happened? I didn’t get to be happy until I was really big. And I missed out on getting to be happy. And I really hope

that you think about what we talk about today and realize how how loved you are and how much you have every right to be loved. and he started crying and he said, “I will. I will. I’ll think about it.” And it’s kind of a um you know, for me it was equally healing because it was reminder of the reminder of sometimes what I forget as well that I also don’t deserve it. And um I think what happens is it’s like the little seeds that we just plant. We plant seeds with every person we come in contact with every day. And we don’t know what those seeds are, but they’re either positive or negative. And those

positive seeds, guaranteed what happens is they walk away thinking how that person made them feel. And you know, when we were talking earlier about leaving the world a better place, I don’t think a whole bunch of people are going to remember me personally. That’s not what’s important. But I’m pretty sure they’re going to remember how I made him feel. Yeah. And that matters way more to me. Like if they have that little touch of God, I really smiled a lot when Celeste was in my life or she told me I was special, but I actually felt it or she gave me a really good hug or like I don’t know, whatever that is. That’s and

I never see you again. I I really would want you to remember that feeling that you had and and know that you’re deserving of that. And so that’s what we try to I personally try to help the kids at the Christmas box house know if they if I get that opportunity. What a turning point for that. And it’s so healing for me and I know it’s got to be healing for them. They just don’t might may not see it at that very second but they’re going to you’re going to feel it later. And it reminds me of that t-shirt. I think you may have had one, Frank. Probably. He who dies with the most toys

wins. Do you remember that kind of ‘9s t-shirt? Used to have it. Used to have it. I still But I I saw one I don’t know a while it said he who dies with the most friends wins. I love it. Replace toys with friends. I thought that’s we should we should do that. That’s good. We should have that. We should have that shirt. You know, you were going to ask a question and I kind of want to ask it, but you go ahead and ask it. Well, my this is probably totally different than your question. My question is about the system, foster care system. So, as I understand it, I think a foster care it’s

like $20 a day. Correct me if I’m wrong. Is Yeah. Is depending on what level you are. Yeah. So if you were to say, okay, what you had a magic wand and you could change the system foster care. Is there one specific thing that you’re like, man, if we could just do if we could just do this like this would really just change the game. I know there’s a lot of big push for more foster parents. There always is because unfortunately we won’t ever have enough. We always have we we just we won’t we the the amount of children that are removed at the pace that we are obligated. Yeah. it’s it’s not possible. So

the shift in in um kinship being the priority, the family being the priority that was not the priority when I was in the system in the 80s is is massive. We also have um something now that didn’t exist that um started happening postcoid which is what are called like family the family meeting but it isn’t just the immediate assumed family. It’s the family that um the lives belong to the children. So, they’re removed. And you may have biological, you may have uncles and aunts, but you might have the school teacher, you might have the coach, you might have the the the guy at the the church, your your priest or whomever that you know, wherever

you go to church, your church leader, you whoever is influential in the life of the child becomes that family unit because it is what it is. um and they pull together. Um it’s now required that that family meeting happened to talk about the best interest of the child and that’s significant. We definitely have made massive changes. When when Utah was sued, we were considered one of the worst states in the nation for the treatment of children. Utah, like it’s kind of hard to believe, right? Now, we are considered one of the best. Ironically, we’re not the best in terms of we have no room to grow. We do. To me, the biggest problem is is

all the red tape. And it is created by this like I don’t think the system is broken. A lot of people do. I don’t. I think it’s complicated. I think we have a lot of people, mostly good people, that just want to do great things for kids. Like, I just fundamentally believe that to be true, even though every bit of the system failed me 100%. By the way, I still believe that to be true. And there weren’t as many safety nets probably at that point, too. Yes. That there are now. Yeah. Yeah. And those Yeah. Those safeguards were not created, which is what the lawsuit forced. Um so the things that fall through the cracks,

the kids that still get hurt that there it’s because there’s so many barriers that the state itself has. I mean, you take even caseworker pay, right? How interesting is it that we’re mandated by law to take children that are abused, right, out of their home, but we’re not mandated to pay those case workers a living wage. A living wage. There’s talk about misalignment. There’s no alignment in that. So, people ask why we don’t take government money as a nonprofit. One, I don’t like to get into the weeds of how that’s managed. I like a lot of freedom and flexibility and and second and I don’t want to rely on it not rely on it all

the things. Um and second is if I’m going to go which I have twice to the legislature and ask them for money. I’m asking for caseworker money. I’m asking for we are not a direct service provider. We fill the gaps and I have a lot of creative ways in which I can do that. They don’t. They pick up a child 50% of them work a second job because they don’t make enough money. They do the hardest work you could possibly have. I mean, who wants to sign up to make a decision to take a child out of their home? Not me. There’s no big think of a more difficult job. There’s no sign on bonus.

No. Then like Yeah. Then making that making that decision on whether that child or children should stay in a home. I mean, I it’s it’s so it’s complicated. So when I think about like what I would change, I would gosh I would really try to figure out where the biggest complications are and and how to diminish those. It’s it is it is very hard. But what I would prevention is always hard going upstream for something that’s Yes. It’s really hard in your day-to-day. Yes. I would tell you easier what I wouldn’t do and it is I wouldn’t condemn people. M I wouldn’t condemn a system that is trying very hard to do right for kids.

It’s not perfect. Nothing is. We have a long way to go. But I can I can promise you the right people with the right hearts are are trying very hard to do that every day for these kids. And you can’t keep working on a system when a child’s not supposed to be in a system. So to me, it’s why the resiliency piece is it’s is such a big deal. What we have to do is is teach them how to survive outside of that because they’re going to land in that anyway. Yeah. But what about the states that don’t have a Christmas box house? Yeah. They have they have other they they all have shelters. Yeah.

It’s just not necessarily modeled in the same way. But the the hardest part about shelter care, so its technical term is congruent care. anything that’s in a in a group home setting, you know, um can be very frowned upon and it’s it’s not a stable model. A lot of people in the community don’t want it. They don’t want the heartache of it coming in their neighborhood. Um and so it’s it’s hard to scale it. Um unless you know you’re the other side and you’ve brilliantly figured out how to work with earning earning money and you know they can make a life for themselves which is you know if if if Christmas box wasn’t my favorite

it’s the other side for the for the record. Likewise love how do you go into these cities though and and tell your story so that they will embrace you because once you’re there we’re so glad you’re there. They don’t want you to leave. So typically what I’m personally asked to help with is not is not creating shelters because nobody wants to get behind it like they philosophically do. They’re like yeah oh that sounds great. We want to bring all those services like we have dental well childcare visits. We have all the services we try to bring to this under one roof. It sounds amazing and it is and we have a lot of great statistics

but it’s not going to be scalable because it’s shelter care. So that’s why the resource rooms and the collaboration is very scalable. That’s much more of a focused model I can talk about um that’s doable. But it really for me is about um when I get asked to speak it’s can you speak to families or children in the system on what they can do and what can the community do to support. Um it’s rarely a system change takes about 10 years easy. Yeah. Or more. And especially in child welfare, it takes about one decade to make a major systemic change. Nobody’s got time for that. These are real kids. There’s 500,000 half a million children

in the foster care system. Whole childhood. I mean, that’s Yeah. So, we just we don’t have time for that. By the time they’re one, they’re going to be 10. And And so, it I think aged out. Like our first lady, Aby’s fantastic, as you know. Um she’s really big into the the prevention stuff as we are and helping families step up step up to support families that are supporting families. Like if you can’t take kids, you could probably help families who do and there’s ways for you to do that. And so I just think those those models are are going to be our our best solution. I was just going to ask you about that.

How meaningful is it for out people outside in the community to be involved? Is that something that you welcome? And is that challenging to get more people involved? I don’t think it’s challenging from the perspective that I think most people want to give. They just don’t know how. Yeah. Absolutely. That was exactly what I said to Preston. Same thing. Yeah. It’s like you specifically with the homeless population. Yes. I drive by to the gym almost every day and I see tents and this and that and you don’t know what to do. Like Yeah. getting the hardest part about getting involved is like I don’t know what I’m like what is my how do I do

this? So providing that opportunity and I think I think supporting nonprofits is the best way because they’re filling um typically an 80% gap in a system with with 20% of 20% on their team. It’s it’s going to be always hard. It’s just it’s just a hard business to be in it. is a lifestyle. And um so I always tell people partner with nonprofits who are already putting resources and dollars and time into systems that work as opposed to walking up and handing the the man that’s the $10 on the street, right? Absolutely. Give it to the program that’s going to help them. Yeah. There’s still ways to give. It’s not the giving to homeless is

wrong. It’s giving to the right people, I think, who are going to make the better decisions on on how to manage that. But for you like living on the street, you know, accepting those those cash payments, good, bad, otherwise for you. Um, so when when yeah, when we probably touched every aspect of the system, I’m very familiar with them all. And I would say um I couldn’t guarantee the I could guarantee that my mom wasn’t going to spend that dollar wisely. Yeah. But when we went to the food bank and we stood in line at the food bank, especially if it was bacon day cuz it was like special occasion, bacon Wednesday. Yeah. Um like

as a as a young girl, I learned how to take that food and and break it up and maximize it, which is why I can’t waste anything today. Um into two weeks. I knew how to make two weeks worth of meals at the age of seven. Started at five. Learned by the time I was seven to be very efficient at it. I knew going to school lunch, I would be able to save school lunch and my sister would have an afternoon snack when I got home. Like, you get really creative working that part of the system. But that’s a system that is also healthy because it’s providing nourishment and shelter and, you know, the things

that are going to make people productive. I’m not a fan of of handing the dollar to someone that doesn’t know how to manage the dollar. I I just um I’d rather go get the food and bring the food to them. Mhm. I think it’s so well said. Yeah. Yeah. I’m not a fan of giving the dollar to someone who’s doesn’t know how to manage the dollar. It isn’t that they’re not deserving of the dollar. It’s not even It’s not about that. We’re not We’re not judging that. We’re just not getting into the weeds of that. Y it’s it’s about what’s the most constructive way. And I’d rather walk in to the McDonald’s, get a breakfast

meal, and then hand them the mail. Yeah. Yeah. Or go in there with them, buy it, sit down, and have a conversation. I’ve done that, too. Yeah. Mhm. Actually, I feel like I kind of feel like a loser. You shouldn’t. It’s not for everyone. Not everybody has comfort level. Um, but I don’t I don’t have this fear of people like a lot of people do because I moved every six months and I I can promise you I’ve seen every walk of life and I just don’t have the oo walk on the other side of the the street that freaks me out. Not from like a naive standpoint like I’m going to put my purse where

it should go but I’m also I don’t avoid people like that. Well, you have a significant and experience different experience. It’s like I think a lot of us feel like you’ve you’ve lived your whole life outside of a short period in this in the in the um nonprofit. I keep wanting to say charitable and then you harassed me so I say nonprofit. It’s just a tax designation difference. So for-profit nonprofit nonprofitity but but you have experience and you have life experience and I think for people who haven’t had that life experience it’s not it’s like you said everybody wants to help. It’s like you don’t know how. Yeah. How wait, how am I going to

take somebody into a restaurant and sit down and what like what is our conversation going to be? What am I what is the appropriate thing to ask? What is the inappropriate thing to ask? How do you h even have that kind of so many worthy causes too? There are so many worthy and they’re all worthy and I think um it’s okay. Pick one. Pick pick any of them and you can do a small thing um every day. You can kind of baby step in. And it’s like when I walk out of a restaurant and I have leftover food, I just find someone I can hand it to. It’s it’s like that initial, especially if you’re

downtown, I can easily find someone to hand that leftover. If I walk out of squatters or something, you know, I can easily find someone to hand that mail to. And it’s kind of a first little like I did my part. I don’t think anybody should ever get into the business of like comparing their part to someone else’s. I think that’s dangerous. Mhm. Some people give time, some people give money, some people share a message on social media. It really all matters. All all involvement matters. I just truly believe that. I think we dig deep. We figure out how to give in a way that matters to us and it’s enough. I think this I’m going

to I just believe that. I love it. And I think people are sometimes fearful of what they don’t know. Absolutely. So the if you have grown up in an an environment that was very safe, which is awesome, very secure, um, organized, you know, all the healthy things, and then you walk onto a street and that is completely opposite. You’re very, you might have a reaction to be fearful of something you don’t know. And I think it’s just it’s okay to I love the be curious model, right? Ask yourself why, why do I feel uncomfortable? What am I what am I most scared of right now? And usually what you what you you define as being

your most scary is not going to be as scary as you think it is. I just don’t think we we pause to take the time to be like that. But you got to be smart and wise, too. Like Yeah. Yeah. There’s streets that even you work in the business, you’re you know, that’s probably not the safest place to go. Yeah. You’re not going to just go waling down in the middle of the night in in and hand out burritos in Tentville and hand out. Yeah. You know what? Like you you have to be smart. But yeah, this is a great transition I think because we we like to do kind of three random questions in

the middle of this somewhere and I am now really curious to see how you would manage these some of these three random questions. I feel like it’s a test. It’s not a test. There’s no right or wrong answers. No. Okay, good. Not at all. Who would you consider the most influential historical figure in your life? Historical figure. Mhm. Not influential, just historical. Uh, no. Yeah. Influential and historical. Like if you look back and said, well, for example, like I’m right now for me it’s George Washington. I tell everybody this. I’m reading this book on George Washington and it’s unbelievable. So like that would be one I would consider like an influential historical figure in my

life. Is yours Preston? What did I tell you? Do you remember? Uh, yes. But it’s embarrassing because I think you said it was me. Yeah. Frank was up there. Frank’s my hero. Is Was that it? It’s close. Uh I think it was Abraham Lincoln. It was Abraham Lincoln. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Who would be mine? I have my most influential. Well, who Let’s do that. Who’s your most influential? Viola Davis, the actress. And how is that in which movie? I know, right? That’s the murder one’s pretty good. Um, so she also wrote uh her memoir. Mhm. And reading it helped me write mine. It was very very empowering. She’s very self-made. Um, you know, lived in

homes with rats and you name it. and she the the way um that she describes as you move through life and it’s not just um doing what’s right but the fact that you have a responsibility to do better. It’s part of a human responsibility to to do better just and and then she had so much bravery in writing it and and she teaches you through her writing to be brave in your own way. And it really taught me an important lesson which is um we don’t have to be brave to choose brave. You don’t just have to be a brave person. You can choose to be brave even on the days you you don’t you

know you’re not. Yeah. You choose it. Yeah. And so I’m a big fan of if there’s one person I could ever meet, it would probably be her. Um because I I don’t think I could even write a letter and tell her thank you and she’d get it. But if I could tell her to her face, I would that she greatly influenced um a really hard time in my life when I was writing my book and it was a lot of work for me. And so yeah, follow her. I’m a big fan on Instagram. All the things I just She’s very empowering for me. Yeah, that’s great. Yeah, you have one. I’m debating on which one

to ask. I’ve got a couple. Let’s go with this one. I just had three questions. Well, there’s a few. Let’s go with this one. Sometimes it turns between the three in which you want to ask of the list. Yes, we have. It could turn into a dozen random questions. You never know. I’ll start with this. Did you dress up for Halloween? Did you wear a costume? Yes. What did you dress up as? So, the first Halloween party was uh Day of the Dead, and we killed it. Me and my partner. We killed it. Um, you dressed as Day of the Dead. Yeah. So, you like Oh, I thought you were saying Halloween is Day of

the Dead. No, no, that was the theme. That was the theme of the party. So, we had to do the whole Oh. Um, my best costume ever was um Kill Bill Uma Thurman volume one, two, three, one in the yellow suit. And and my son was John Wick. And let’s just say we got kicked off of Facebook for pointing weapons at each other. Oh gosh. Aw. Can you believe it? I don’t know. I just Yeah, I can’t believe that. And come on now. I was I was just on an airplane on an extraordinarily long flight. You ever have those? I’m glad you got home cuz Thank you. TSA’s Yeah. 10% of the flights are getting

ready to go in. You’re not kidding. We We squeaked in. Yeah. Under the radar with the radar. Well, okay. So, I watched a documentary radar somewhere on the making of John Wick. on the making of the John Wick movies with Keanu. I’ve got to see if my son’s seen that. You have to see it. It’s a How old son? Oh, wait. 30. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. My kids are Yeah. Okay. He He He might really enjoy it. There are two things that came out of it. One is it’s it’s a really interesting story about how John Wick, the story evolved and and all of the characters that are part of it and how odd Keano

Reeves is. Mhm. He’s so weird. He’s such a good dude, but he like But he’s always described as like the best person. He he goes to cities and goes and visits homeless shelters without any like notice. He’s always found at like the most bizarre places sitting with Yeah. people that he finds him on a on a park bench having a burrito with someone that’s, you know, just like that. Like I think that is his superpower. But I will say this. You please watch please watch the documentary and then you should and then and then just I want I would love to follow up and hear what your thought I’m totally going to watch to pound

for pound here’s my next question. Yeah. Pound per pound for pound Nicholas Cage or Keanu Reeves. Who is the best worst actor in America? Nicholas Cage by far is the worst actor ever. But is he the best worst actor? Well, yeah, because he makes his own movie about it. I mean, you got to do it, right? Is that a great movie, though? My son made me what? He gets me into these bizarre shows. He’s like, “Mom, this is so funny.” I’m like, “Your version of funny and mine are really different.” Super different. What is that called? The un bearable weight of being Nicholas Cage or something like that. Leaving Las Vegas. Wasn’t he in that

one? He was in that one as well. But he have you did you know that he literally wrote a movie? Yeah. About him. Yeah. About himself being an actor. Yeah. And it’s hilarious. You’ve seen it. It’s hilarious. So entertaining. It’s so weird. It’s the whole concept is so weird that you can’t help but laugh. Yeah. Yeah. So you’re going hands down the worst actor. But the best worst actor, but obviously the best worst actor. The best worst actor in America. For sure. He’s for sure the best. Those two Ko Reeves and I love the John Wick movie. So I love him. All right. memories. I just like to watch. Yeah. In general. Wait, he’s cute.

Oh, that’s where I was headed. And then I’ve paused because I thought maybe that would be plays the doctor. I think it’s important. Yeah. When you when you look at your favorite actresses and actors, you differentiate. Are they a good actor or do you just like to look at them? And that’s okay. Brad Pitt or Tom Cruz? In terms of which like best actor? No, that’s Mission Impossible or like I don’t think Tom Cruz is a great actor. Um I think who’s more appealing. Who’s more appealing to you? By far Brad Pitt. I’ve asked this question several times. I think we’re like 95% Brad Pitt. People go with Brad Pitt. Yeah, I did like F1.

It was a good movie. But I like the I like the crew chief in that movie who was his love interest. I thought she was really good. Yeah, you would. Just kidding. Anyway, do you have another random question? Oh, you have one good That was a good That was a good kind of And why didn’t you ask me about my favorite women act actors? Why did we go right to men? Because I’m female. Okay, ask her that. That’s a good one. Let’s talk about favorite women. Let’s talk about female actresses. Wait, was that offensive that I asked you about Absolutely not offensive. It was curious because I want you guys to say yours. It’s rhetorical.

Oh, my my favorite female actress. I’ll tell you mine if you tell me yours. My favorite female actress. And is it because it used to be Michelle Feifer because she’s cute or because you think she’s a good actress? I mean, it’s a worthy question. Glenn Glen Close may be the most like in terms of being an actress threw the bunny in the rap. No, because she’s so like she’s a really Yeah. actress. I would not put her I I don’t think she’s but I don’t think she’s appealing. So, it’s appealing versus Michelle Feifer was like had kind of both both of things. Greece, I don’t know if you ever saw her in Greece, too. like

Catwoman like maybe I know there’s this debate but for Catwoman there’s no question Michelle Fefeifer number one it’s like Michael Jordan or LeBron James. Michael Jordan of course there’s no question. So Michelle Fefeifer was for I think she was for a long time my favorite I think she was a lot of a lot of people’s Yeah. actress and who would that be? I don’t know. There’s there’s lots of talented people. Who is your favorite actress? My well, my girl crush is Charlize Therone, hands down. Just she played some really hard parts and she just she’s and she’s a she’s a she’s a great person. She’s beautiful. I think she’s a great actress. Um, but if

but Viola Davis would probably be one of my favorite actresses in terms of hard roles. But if you ever saw Charliss Stone played a role uh based on a true story called Monster. Yes. Mhm. I’m like, “Oh, okay. You win.” Yikes. Did she win an Academy Award? I I don’t know if she won or was nominated for something, but very deserving. I think when an actor or actress completely changes, transfigures himself, who they are. Yeah. Um, yeah, they I mean they look different. They they have to really study and play the part. Um, there’s a series out called The Penguin and it’s um, you know, and those gangstery Yeah. Yeah. And it’s uh, is it

Tom Hardy? Tom Hardy is unbelievable. Yeah, I agree. I think it I think he’s the one that plays the penguin and Oh, man. Yeah. I recommend anybody see that. It’s so good. I think Tom Hardy is good in almost anything. I like the shows that like play with the mind. Uhhuh. Make you go, hm. I’m not supposed I don’t think I’m supposed to like the character, but I kind of do. But you’re kind into it. Yeah. I’m confused. Yeah. Is there So, this will be my final. Is there a TV series that you watched that you just binged start to finish in like 24 to 48 hours? Piquey Blinders. Pinky Blinders. Blinders. Pey Blinders was

very compelling. It’s so well done. Have not seen it. You haven’t? I I think you would. I think you would like it. I think it’s really interesting. It’s based um who’s the who’s the leader? Based on the true story of the Pink Pey Blinders in the in the depression, you know, and it the movie really sinks you into how hard it was in so many ways and and it has the gangster flare and it’s pretty brutal. So, I don’t know if it’s for everyone, but I really liked it. Um, I liked I liked all the aspects about it, but it can be a little hard to watch, but you know, whatever. Um, the main actor,

I just forgot his name. The guy I can’t remember. Pey Blinders. It’s right. Why did I just It’s right on the tip of my tongue. Silly Murphy. Oh, yeah. He plays Thomas Shelby. Okay. Thomas Shel’s the head. Yeah, he’s good. He’s He plays He plays in a lot of stuff. He plays some good actor, too. He’s really good. He’s a good weird He’s a good weird character. Look at that. He’s, you know, he was in Wasn’t he in Batman? Yeah, he was in one of the Batman. He plays the Yeah. evil guy. What’s his name? Yeah, one of those evil guys. I mean, he looks like he could play a bad guy. Yeah, he looks

like a bad guy. Are you Do you think you’re attracted to the bad guys? Like that’s your thing. For sure. For sure. Yeah. You have a shot here. You’re so funny. Yeah. which has caused me a lot in a lot of trouble in my past. I’m I’m I’m settling into that’s not the best plan for Celeste. You like to live on the edge. I I do. I love to skydive. You do? Mhm. You go solo? What? No, cuz you have to do it a lot and I only do it once a year. What? Okay, last one. 17 random questions. She’s like jump out of a perfectly good plane. My mom like just can’t get her

head around that. What is the thing you’re most afraid of? It’s not an adrenaline thing. It’s it’s a it’s a loss of one of my children. Oh man. Yeah. It’s not Kids always win. It’s not fun for me. Yeah. It really makes me But you had that experience as me with anything. Test me with anything else but not that. Not that thing. Yeah. Because it’s that’s a traumatic it’s a we’ve in working for Richard Evans for 30 years. That’s there’s so much premise. His first book was on that. He We have uh hundreds of angels based on the book that are placed in cemeteries throughout the world, like hundreds of them now. And every December

6th at 7:00 p.m., no matter the time zone, people who have lost children get together. It’s it’s quite beautiful. But the amount of heartache um and I think of of everything I have capacity for, it’s it’s the one thing I I I don’t think I could be on it. M it’s Yeah. I’m like, you know, I’m I’m I’m a believer that um a little bit in the God doesn’t give you things you can’t handle, but that might be it. Like that might be my over the edge thing cuz I’ve met people that have lost multiple children and I am like I don’t know. I don’t know how how you function. Yeah. And my son and

I talk about that cuz he’s a dad now. And it’s he’s like, “Yeah, mom, I don’t know how that I’m like, “Well, if you have other children, you get up function for other children.” And and I that might be the only thing, but it’s so it’s it’s sad, but for me, that’s kind of that’s like that’s my my biggest fear. Um I don’t fear death. I don’t fear just I don’t know. That’s the thing. That Yeah, that’s that’s that’s the thing. I just please don’t make me go through that. Well, you know what? I have I’ve really enjoyed this conversation. Like this has been fascinating and so Wonder Woman real life insightful. No, it’s like

it is it is like you just don’t know until you know like the life experience and only the overcoming and the impact your organization makes and yeah and the drive and the determination all of the amazing things that you’ve accomplished and we really appreciate you being here. It’s been one of the funnest podcasts ever. You guys are so fun. Is it another question? Is it me? Am I more is it my am I more fun or is it fresh and it’s not a popularity? Preston and I have been friends for a few years now and um through the nonprofit sector but just become friends and I would if he calls I go like I feel

like he only he only leads he only leads me to the right places. Did you get choked up because you weren’t being truthful just now? Yeah. Right. My my need some water. my internal calls. And he calls I better go. Okay. Out of office. I want you to ask the question because I think that’s the perfect last question to ask about you guys like read each other’s minds. Well, he he said it earlier, but I I want him to ask it about if you had advice for someone. Oh. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So for and this could be re relevant to any organization, nonprofit, for-profit, what advice would you give to the next generation of leaders?

Sit down and breathe more. Take a deep freaking breath. Like it’s it’s going to work out. Enjoy the ride. Like everybody says it goes by fast, but you really know as you get older. it like you think there’s no way the year gets faster because time is time but it feels faster every year. I’m like it feels faster. We were just here. We were just getting ready for Project Elf yesterday. And um even when I think about like raising my children, there’s just such a such a rush to do everything so fast and and that grow up so fast. And not the grow up like be responsible, like be responsible, but live. Don’t forget to

live while you’re building that career, while you’re raising all that money, while you’re taking care of other people’s children, but maybe not your own. Like, pause, sit down. I have a three alarms during the day on my phone at 9:30 and 9, I’m sorry, 9:00 noon and 3 that are to breathe. And you know, it’s a funny joke cuz like you breathe all day. And but when I first put him on and brought him into work, my team was like, “Oh my gosh, she’s breathing. Here she goes with her weird thing. She’s breathing.” And now it’s like, “When do we breathe again?” Like, well, really, we can do it anytime. Y’all know we can really

stop what we’re doing and go ahead and breathe. Time to breathe. But we all stop and we choose three, four, or five of the breathe in, hold, breathe out. And somebody gets to take a turn. Run, do it three, four, or five times. And one, it’s it’s it’s the proven way to slow your nervous system down. So when I say breathe, I literally mean just stop. You don’t have to have I don’t care how busy you are. You don’t have a lot of time to do that. The three full breaths in and out take you what? Six seconds, maybe? A minute. Well, three and three out. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. I just did it. 6* 3

is 18. We while you were talking about it, all of a sudden I’m like, there’s a great Pearl Jam song called Just Breathe. It’s my favorite Pearl Jam song. Did any of Yeah, but do you understand any of the words? Be honest. You have to Well, no. Comedians make jokes about that. Like, you just go really fast. You know, Elton John has a song like that. I was just listening to it. Goodbye Yellow Brick Road. Do you know the words to Goodbye Yellow Brick Road? I know the chorus. I dare you to recite Goodbye Yellow Brick Road. And that’s a wrap. He’s not going to ask that question, right? I don’t really have to sing

yellow brick road. No, you don’t. That’ll be our music as we end this this podcast. Yellow brick road. Like most people know that part. Everyone knows that part, but then you try to do the lyrics and it’s crazy. You know the trick when you don’t know the lyrics is watermelon. Mouth it slow. No one knows. No one knows. You’re just saying watermelon. I’m going to try that. I never know the words. all the work. Do it. You can speed it up. You can slow it down. It It’s very effective. Very, very effective. Well, listen, thank you so much. I appreciate you guys. So amazing talking with you. Um, you really made the time that I

have to spend with Preston much more enjoyable. Right. Same. Same. He never brings me golfing, so this is the only time I get to see him or give clubs or anything like that. Well, you have to get down to under a 10. Like it’s fantastic. And you guys have known each other for a while. A long time. It’s a deep history. I don’t like to talk about it. He has something that he told me. Yeah. Oh, he he holds that over me. Like Yeah. I coached his daughter in soccer. Yeah. We were a championship team and now his now his daughter coaches soccer. Yeah. It’s amazing. You’re inspired her. You were you’re in you’re an

inspiration. You’re an inspiration. You’re an inspiration, Celeste. Thank you so much. Where where can people find you? Where can people find the Christmas box? Edmonds.com. The chrisbox.org. They both lead to the other somewhere and garbage bag girls on Amazon. And if you’re an Audible person I I did narrate it. I thought writing it was hard. Reading a lot of good reading is in. And hey, it’ll open your mind. T the season. If you’re thinking about making a contribution somewhere, you could do a lot worse than these two organizations right now. Yeah. The other side, Christmas box, wherever you wherever your heart calls for you to be. Mhm. You can volunteer, make a donation. Find your

village. Find your village at the other side. That’s a great way to That’s a great way to wrap this up. And that’s a wrap. Thank you. Come back and see us. Thanks, Celeste. Anytime. Thank you for listening to the Know Your Ship podcast presented by EHUB. Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a review.