How to Scale a Mission-Driven Organization

I learned quickly I had enough passion and enough of the skills to do what I needed to do to do it. And then I needed to find the people that had the skills that I lacked to fill in the gaps. Welcome to the Know Your Ship podcast presented by E-Hub. I’m your host Frank D’Souza. When did you recognize that? Did you recognize that early on in your life that you were looking for opportunities to serve? Oh, yeah. Yeah, it’s always just been kind of a little bit of who I am. I there that I really believe that as you explore avenues and possibilities available to you, it comes into your heart and mind the thing

that’s right for you. Mhm. And I discovered through the years every, you know, 6 to 10 years, I am exploring something new and then it comes into my heart and mind the thing that’s right for me. And I really believe that. When you say exploring something new, are you saying like a new direction in life? Sure. Or So, so, you know, I I was a mom Mhm. of little kids for a long time and I I wanted to be um engaged and creative. So, I looked for opportunities to do artwork cuz I love to draw and I had lots of amazing opportunities to do clip art and rubber stamps and fun things on the side.

And then when I would start to explore ways to serve, there would be beautiful opportunities, and usually right in my own neighborhood or among my own family. My brother and his wife adopted five kids from Haiti and when the earthquake happened um many years ago, they needed crutches and wheelchairs. And so, my son needed a service project, so we collected walkers and wheelchairs and they filled our garage and I think it’s been really beautiful to see how if you are looking for things and you pay attention and you listen to your heart and mind, it comes into your mind what’s right for you. And I feel like that’s what happened with the refugee work that

I do. Well, we failed to mention or maybe I failed to mention, you’re the executive director of the Utah Refugee Connection. Yes. Here in here in Salt Lake City. Okay, and we’ll talk about that a lot, but I would love to get more into your background. And I’m going to let Preston ask a question or two as well. I feel like I’m dominating. He’s letting me. Yeah. Do you Do you have an appropriate question? I have several. I mean, when you look at Utah Refugee Connection and it’s evolved. Oh, for sure. It’s much different than to change. Yeah. It’s much different than what it was 10 years ago. So, what what did it first look

like then and what does it look like now? How was it different? So, um we are set up to fill gaps in services in the refugee community in in Utah. And if you look at the landscape of of refugee resettlement and refugees here, it’s changed a lot through the years. You know, we I remember in high school we had a lot of individuals um that were referred to as the boat people, the people that were fleeing um horrific things and a lot of families were taking them in and um through the years as more conflict has evolved in the uh world, unfortunately, more and more people are being displaced by war. And so, I think

initially when Utah Refugee Connection started 15 years ago, it was started by Missy Wilson Larsen and Lou Miller. It was a much smaller niche. Mhm. they were asked to by Palmer Depauw list, I believe, to try and figure out a way to engage government, engage the general community, businesses in meaningful ways to help refugees. And be separate from a government entity. I don’t know if you’ve ever had to work with government entities, but there’s so many hoops they have to jump through. It’s crazy. It is crazy. Like you just simply buying t-shirts, you have to find do contracts with different vendors and get bids and it was like, “Okay, a nonprofit could help do some

of those things.” And so, Missy and Lou started out filling some gaps and then over time it’s really evolved. When I started 10 years ago, we had very little money in the bank. Um I was trying to figure out how to make things work and basically when I started, I was a volunteer. And I was asked to help with social media and I knew just a titch about social media cuz I’d work with some bloggers. That’s what influencers were then, bloggers. And I’d worked with some bloggers and had enough um insight to know how much their channels of communication could do. And you know, they were showing things like how to redecorate a bedroom, what’s

a really good recipe, how to make your own Play-Doh. And I kept thinking, “Do you know how much they could do with their platform to promote good?” Mhm. I just was so intrigued and I could never have quite find the way to get those influencers to channel their energies to something like that. And And for some, it was like they were too afraid or it wasn’t really their thing. And so, I was approached by the executive director at the time and she said, “Hey, we know there’s a lot of talk about refugees. We know The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is going to probably talk about refugees during the next general conference. We

want to start a social media feed and maybe an app. We are looking for someone that could start our social media.” And I was like, “This is my dream gig. I could find a way to use a platform like the bloggers, but do it using these channels to promote people doing good.” And so, I told the executive director, “I’m here to try it for a little while, and if it works for you and it works for me, great. But like 3 months, let’s reassess.” And in that 3 months, we did a lot of good, and some really cool things happened. And then into like about the fourth or fifth month, she decided she wasn’t she

was going to quit and take a different job. Mhm. And so, at that time, the board said, “Hey, if she’s going to quit, I don’t know if we’re going to continue. Mhm. So, can you just step in until we figure out what we’re going to do?” And I was like, “Sure.” I mean, I knew probably the most about what was going on, but I I also had no experience running a nonprofit. I was like, “Okay.” And we were small. It wasn’t anything big, but the social media started capturing people’s attention because our goal was to give people a way to learn, serve, or give to refugees Mhm. right here in our community. And a lot

of people wanted to know what to do. They just didn’t know what to do. And so, we fed them an avenue. Here are some ways to get involved. And so, over time, she left, and I step in stepped in. And my board was so patient. They were so patient, but also they were kind of like, well, we don’t have anyone else to do this. This is who we got. Yeah, this is who we got. And I just was like, I can’t let this go away. There’s too many people. And it kind of makes me emotional now. There’s too many people that could benefit from both what the community could give, but also that could benefit

from the experience. I knew like from my own time sitting in the homes of refugees what their capacity was to teach us so much and to become part of our communities. I’m like, you can’t let this go away. We can’t. There’s just This just can’t go away. So, now we’re in a much different place. Um we have an incredibly gifted community that really wants to be engaged. I mean, through our different social media platforms, we have about 26,000 people that want to meaningfully give or be a part. And it’s really magical. It’s so magical. So, we’ve changed a lot. Yeah, how many how many years ago was that? When did you start that? 10 years

ago. So, you found your calling. Your calling found you. Something aligned. mean, it wasn’t like I said, “Hey, I want this job. How much does it pay? Here’s my resume.” I kind of fell into it. Mhm. And then luckily my board was patient as I was like, I don’t even know what a 990 is. Like, you know, I don’t know all these things. Uh-huh. And I mean, I don’t have all the skills. I mean, I learned quickly. I had enough passion and enough of the skills to do what I needed to do to do it. And then I needed to find the people that had the skills that I lacked to fill in the gaps.

Mhm. And it’s really beautiful. I think one thing that you said that resonates is and I feel this way about Preston’s organization as well. Like sometimes you just don’t know what you can do. Like you you drive down the street. I tell the story regularly. You drive down the street, see a homeless person. Like I don’t know what to do. Am I supposed to give money, respond to a sign, drive by and, you know, hide my face. As as a community member, you just don’t know what step you can take. And so what you were talking about is providing this education and opportunities and different ways to serve. I was looking through your website and

there’s I don’t know, 10 different boxes or 10 different circles that you that you can click on and one is, you know, you can come to learn about refugees. You can night. donate. You can come to a culture night. So giving people opportunities to get involved. Yeah. So every day on our social media feed, we we try and give a way to learn, a way to serve, or a way to give. And it can be big or small. I mean, I just love that like right now we have um another group that’s trying to take refugee teens and young adults to go skiing. Mhm. Okay, if you you And it’s really cool because they’re willing

to get their equipment, get them to the ski resort, get them, you know, outfitted and Well, they are they needed help getting them outfitted. So we’re putting up a sign up genius where someone can sign up and pick someone that they can get the clothing for. So it’s not even that it’s benefiting our nonprofit. We’re like an avenue for a lot of people to get things to other organizations that are serving refugees. Um another thing we frequently share about Meet the Muslims night. You know, that’s at a mosque. So, it’s not necessarily you know, coming back to us as in as as help, but it’s helping refugees be better understood in our community. And so,

one of the amazing things about our nonprofit is our board is like, “Yeah, share as many opportunities as you can for any any network of the providers that are trying to help refugees.” And so, we’re constantly posting different things. Some people are like, “Hey, I just want to go on Amazon and buy a few developmental toys for refugee kids.” Or, “Hey, I want to take my grandkids to go buy a favorite children’s book for Christmas and drop it off.” So, we’re constantly coming up with you know, some people want to give big, some people want to just share time, some people want to, you know, have a really hands-on personal experience with refugees. So, we’re

trying to give everyone little avenues to connect with the refugee population here in Utah. What What does the refugee [clears throat] population look like? So It’s interesting. We have about 65 to 85,000 refugees here in Utah. Some arrived the the the last group arrived in January. Um, and then From? From Well, we have some from Afghanistan, Ukraine. Um, as far as I know, I don’t think we have gotten any from South Africa. That’s the latest group that the Trump administration has allowed to come, but um, the interesting thing is some have been here decades, some have been here just last week. It’s very hard to get a concrete number. So, if anyone says, “This is

exactly how many refugees are in Utah,” you know they’re lying. Because after 5 years, refugees can become citizens. And we don’t track We want them to just become part of our community. So, we have kind of a general ballpark of 65 to 85,000 refugees. And a cool thing about after they get their citizenship, after 5 years they can apply and take the test, they can change their name. And I kind of love that we have a friend named John Wayne. Oh. He decided to change his name to John Wayne. So, what would you change your name to? I don’t know. Would I keep my name, Amy Da, or would I change it? What would I

do? But I think it’s really cool when refugees either look up to someone in American culture or they decide to keep their name from their culture that they came from. But it’s up to them. And so, we don’t track them after that. We want them just to be part of our community. It’s amazing. So, [clears throat] in the in the early ’90s, I I was a refugee resettlement uh for Catholic Community Services. I speak Vietnamese. Cool. So, we had a lot of Vietnamese refugees coming and I would work take them get them into school and get them housing and do all and they would invite invite me over to dinner and um but then it

it get they get cut off. Right? They get a little bit of assistance coming in and then it’s like a hard Yeah. So, you got to get them a job pretty quick. Quits. Yeah. Getting them into English classes. How does it look like now for someone that’s coming today? So, right now is really difficult. A lot of the federal funding that has provided support for refugees is going away. And a lot of the scaffolding of support is going away and it’s really hard. And we actually just started a program called Connect and Lift. And we’re working with IRC, International Rescue Committee Salt Lake. And as this federal funding, you know, is minimized or more of

these programs are going away, we are working with um IRC. As a family goes through case management, like you did Preston, and helps find a job. As they get closer to the end of case management, what we’re doing is we’re getting together neighborhood support teams. So, for example, Frank, you could decide, “I’m going to be a team leader and I’m going to find four friends and we’re going to come together and we’re going to get matched up with a refugee family that’s leaving case management and when they leave case management, we’re going to adopt them as part of our community.” And we’re going to help them make sure they’re going to school, make sure they’re

doing well learning English, help them find better jobs, and we’re going to take on not totally sponsoring them, but helping them acclimate into our community. And we just started that about 2 months ago. Um like I said, we’re a gap filler and we feel like there’s a gap and every refugee family needs a friend and an advocate. And if you get four families together or four people that genuinely want to help a family, they’re going to do more than any case manager could do because they have the time, they know the community. And so, we started this, we have five teams, neighborhood support teams, that are already set up and getting connected with a family

probably as we speak in this these next few weeks. Then we have another group of five teams that will be matched up and we’re partnering with IRC Salt Lake. Um uh Welcome NST, which stands for Welcome Neighborhood Support Team. They’re uh uh an organization across the United States that’s been doing private sponsorship for refugee families and they’re pivoting. And then um Lifting Hands International Utah. So, four of us nonprofits have gathered together to start this Connect and Lift program. And so, we’re jazzed about it. We have a goal to have 30 teams set up and connected with 30 families by the end of June. Wow. So, how amazing is that? Because a lot not to

diss on any organizations that send you know, whether it’s youth to go do something and build a school or build a well or I mean, that’s always well and good. But right in our backyard, we have these service opportunities. You don’t have to go to a foreign country to find them. so, um I love and I’m like I you don’t want to discount that experience. amazing. But there are lots of teens and lots of families could that could never afford to send their kids to do something in another country. I grew up in a situation, there’s no way I could have ever done that. And so, I love that you can make a difference and

have a multicultural experience in your own backyard. And I have several friends, when you were talking about working with Vietnamese individuals, I have friends from high school that took in families. They’re still friends with those families. And they have made a really meaningful difference. So, our hope is these neighborhood support teams will allow these refugee families to have the support and friendship they need, but also give these families a really cool and meaningful opportunity. It’s like a foster family. A little bit. Yeah. But you’re not one-on-one. You’re a team of five because I think you know, Preston, when you are mentoring a refugee family, you can get overwhelmed very quickly. I mean, there’s a lot

of needs. At this point, there’s no financial they don’t need to sponsor the family financially. They still have, you know, they’ll be getting rent. They’ll still be doing some of those things, but their case management won’t be as robust and hopefully, they just take over. Yeah. And help this family just become a part of our community. Talk about the language barrier. How do you deal with that? You get really good at signing. And you get really good at Google Translate. And um I don’t know some of those families have, you know, initially they have to get connected to English classes quickly. But usually it’s the dad and the kids that get English quickly and the

mom’s usually at home and she’s usually speaking her native language and so it’s a great opportunity for some of these women to come in and go, “Hey, let’s either help with your kids so you can go to English class or let’s start some conversation in English and we’re going to help you.” Mhm. So, yes, there are language barriers but technology’s amazing. You can do a lot with technology. I think there’s some uh maybe miscommunication in the community about how refugees get here and the process they have to go through. I’d I’d like you to address you know, frequently people say to me, “How many of the refugees do you help are here legally?” And that

automatically tells me they don’t quite understand the process. Because in order to have the technical refugee status that is given to someone before they leave the country that they’re in. And they have to go to through substantial background checks to verify that their life is in danger. They’ll either be persecuted, killed, um they there’s just no way they can stay in their country without a fear for their lives. And they have to document that. And and they have to go to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees and apply for refugee status. And once they get that status, they’ve proven that they’re fearing for their lives. But then if they are referred to be resettled

in the United States, they don’t get to pick where they get to go. They’re assigned a country. So, they they they get assigned to country and if they get assigned to the United States, um they have to go through another like six to eight background checks, CIA, Homeland Security, um um bio like medical. They have to prove that they’re all related. They have one-on-one interviews with every single family member. And then once they pass those, then they might get it be put in the pipeline to come to the United States. And when they get here, they have that legal authorization as a refugee. They’re expected to work right away. They’re expected to become part of

the community, go to school, participate. So, every single refugee that has refugee status is here legally, and I think a lot of people don’t understand that. Um we do have some individuals that have temporary protected status, meaning they needed to get out of the country really quickly. Um because they didn’t they didn’t have time to go to a refugee camp and wait until their paperwork. They needed to get out. Afghan refugees, that’s that’s one, and also um those from Ukraine um have either temporary protected status or humanitarian parolee status. And I think people don’t realize too um when you’re applying for refugee status and you’re in a refugee camp, it can take decades. There are

families that have been in refugee camps for decades and generations. You can have your grandparents, your kids, and your grandkids waiting in a refugee camp. There are refugee camps as big as cities. And the hard thing about those refugee camps is there aren’t a lot of educational opportunities, not a lot of job opportunities. And do you know what percentage of people leave a refugee camp to go to a secondary safe country? 3%. 99 you know, about 99 to 97% will stay and live out their lives in in their entirety in the refugee camp or eventually return to their country when it’s safe. That’s a huge loss of human potential. So, if you are one of

those 1% the 3% that leave a refugee camp, you are so lucky. You are so lucky. And you sometimes leave behind certain family members, you leave behind friends. It’s really hard to watch some of these stories that I hear. Is that because like in in with families specifically are family members left behind because they didn’t acquire refugee status or this is interesting. I love this question. Um frequently when there’s war Mhm. um the families will flee and sometimes they flee in different directions. So, like if a dad was at work kids were at home. The Lost Boys of South Sudan are the perfect example of this. They were out tending the goats and the village

is invaded and their parents were slaughtered or they run to different places. Sometimes they’re never able to find each other. And so when they go to the refugee camp, it may be a mom and three daughters. They don’t even know where their their father is and they start the process of applying for refugee status. And then maybe they do find the father a few years later, but he’s on a different timeline of going through all the applications. It’s not easy. It’s really not easy. So, that Does that kind of explain how that can happen? We also have Catholic Community Services has a foster care program for unaccompanied minors. And these are individual refugees that lost

their parents or were never able to find their parents. And so they’re in a foster care program that’s unique and specific to those individuals. Can you imagine being a 9-year-old, 15-year-old losing your parents and them being resettled into another country? So, there’s always a need for foster care parents with Catholic Community Services. And a lot of times those teenagers get put in very vulnerable positions, a lot of human trafficking um with those individuals cuz you don’t have a parent to watch over you. Yeah. So, lots of different needs. Yeah. Under what circumstances is it most likely to see refugees thrive in the United States? is another great question, Frank. Um Preston has two in a

row. Two in a row. Two Preston, you better get thinking. Let’s put up a scoreboard. And then we’re going to keep Okay. So, Frank, Yeah. you kind of asked what helps refugees thrive. Mhm. So, first of all, I always say refugees, individuals from the around the world, intelligence, creativity, ingenuity are everywhere. What isn’t everywhere are opportunities. And so, when you come to the United States, we have a lot of opportunities. A lot of really amazing opportunities that a lot of people don’t have. And so, inherently, those skills are everywhere. You got to tap into them. However, if you’re not If you’re hungry, you’re not safe, you don’t have a place to live, it’s pretty hard

to tap into that divine potential or become who you’re meant to be until all your basic needs are met. And so, as refugees come here and become safe, they have the food they need, the resources they need. All of a sudden they’re like, “Woah. What can What more can I do?” You know, they’re safe and once they start learning the language, but that initial time period is critical. And I feel like the more resources and support we put into those first few years of them being here, the greater the rewards we get back. So, I can give you maybe a couple examples. So, one of my favorite stories is about a Somali girl. And I

might not have the story totally right, but when she heard she was coming to the United States, she was jazzed because she knew in the United States girls get to go to school. They have to go to school. And there are lots of really cool opportunities. She was 18 when she got that message. So excited. Go to high school, learn. Well, the paperwork took so long by the time she got here, she was too old for high school. And she was devastated. Her first job was at the University of Utah. And every day she saw people living her dream and she’s cleaning. Well, she decides, “I’m going to get my GED.” Got a scholarship. She

went to the U. She spoke at graduation several years ago. She’s in medical school. So, who what aren’t we tapping into when we don’t help them initially? Um another favorite story I have is we had some refugees that worked at our share house. And there was an older lady named Zainab. What share house? It’s Oh, the share house is where we collect items for refugees and distribute items. We call it the Serve Refugees Share House and it’s a really magical place. Well, Zainab was an older lady and she worked for us and she was very talented at doing henna. And she had so many wonderful attributes. so you don’t tattoos with henna. you, Preston. Thank

you. Anyway, so she would work She worked for us and as we were getting rid of things frequently, she’d say, “Oh, no, no. Can I take that home?” And we were like, “What’s Sure, you can take that.” Like, a a paper tablecloth, uh just a random thing. She’d always say, “Can I have that?” So, one day, I don’t know why, but we had some Capri Suns, the little sippy Capri Sun packages, and Delicious. she said Yeah, she said, “Hey, don’t throw those away. Can I have those?” So, I’m like, “Sure.” And I had seen Africans make them into bags or something. Wallets, sheets. But, I was like, “Yeah, you can have those.” Well, a couple

weeks later, someone had asked her if she could do a henna design for them. And Zainab opens her her purse, and she starts getting out some scissors and a lighter and some things, and I’m like, “What is she doing?” And all of a sudden, I see her get out the Capri Sun pouch, and she cuts it open, and she rolls it up like a frosting bag, and then she burns the edges to make sure it’s sealed, so it looks like a little frosting bag like you decorate cakes with, and she pulls out the supplies for her henna and mixes it in the little Capri Sun pouch, and proceeds to use it as a tool to

do henna. Now, never in a million years would I think, “Oh, this Capri Sun pouch could later become a tool to do something useful.” But, because refugees have been in refugee camps, they’ve learned to use every possible resource in every possible way. Americans don’t think that way. So, I really believe some of these individuals, because they don’t think like us, will solve the problems we can’t solve. Because they don’t think like we do, they think outside of the box. Survival mode. They do. Like, they use every possible thing in every possible way. Another really beautiful individual. So, as we’re helping them kind of tap into who they are, getting them safe, secure, and we invest

in them, they’re going to start giving back. Another really beautiful story. Um I met a woman um who she was uh sophomore at the U. And she was a refugee that was from Nepal. And she reached out to me and she’d come to some of our events and volunteered. We like to have refugees come and give things out so that younger kids from these different refugee countries see the potential they have later to give back. And she came for a year and helped at events and um she said, “Hey Amy, I really need your help. There’s some stigmas around menstruation in my community. Would you please come and help build some understanding so that women

know this is a normal process, they’re not dirty, but they don’t need to be shunned. This is a normal part of a woman’s women’s health cycle.” And I said, “You know, I don’t know if I can help with that, but I’ll do what I can.” And I connected her with someone that teaches, you know, about women’s health. And she’s I said, “Well, tell me what else you’re working on, you know.” I find out she’s studying biomedical engineering at the U. And she is working on a biodegradable menstrual pad. And she’s just so like laser-focused on figuring out how to help women understand their menstrual cycle, how to create something that’s biodegradable. Um she graduated from

the U and she said, “Oh, my family’s moving.” I was really sad to hear this cuz I loved this this woman. And um 2 years ago she called me and said, “Hey Amy, I’m moving back to Utah. I could really, you know, I’d really love to connect with you. She got accepted to U of U medical school and now she’s in her second year at the medical school. And every couple of months she comes in and she asks for a few items like laundry soap so she doesn’t incur more debt. But this is what happens when you help these families initially, they find ways to give back. And some of them might not ever get

totally on their feet, but their kids will. And we’re all the beneficiaries of people who welcomed our ancestors Mhm. and made their lives better and our lives are better because of it. Um there’s a really beautiful quote by Michael Lewis that says above all recognize that if you’ve had success you you’ve also had luck. And with luck comes obligation. You will owe a debt not only to your gods, you owe a debt to the unlucky. And we owe a debt to the unlucky. And there are a lot of unlucky people around us. Might be someone that’s homeless. It may be someone that’s incarcerated. Refugees I think are some of the most unlucky people just because

of where they were born. It could be me or you. I mean we we we landed in a beautiful opportunity based on where we were born. And so I feel like I love that quote because all of us in this room have had some kind of success. Mhm. And it’s simply because we are so freaking lucky. And we owe a debt to God or our gods who however we see that, but we also owe a debt to the unlucky. And so if we help the unlucky get on their feet then they become lucky and then we become lucky. It’s just like a cycle. It’s a beautiful cycle, yeah. I Go ahead. I I was just

going to say so when you look at someone like that Mhm. and you see their potential. 10 years ago, you think you Would you ever thought you were the organization would be where it is now? Oh, no, no, no, no, no. No, like for for years I kept going, “They’re going to ask me. I’m going to be out. This is not going well.” Um and I still have moments where I’m like, “Oh, man, that was not the best choice.” But there’s some really beautiful things happening. And I think one of the things that are I mean, we’re a small little group. I mean, there’s less than 10 of us. But we’re mighty because we all

really care tremendously. No one’s doing this because they’re making a a lot of money. They’re They’re doing this because they care. But we have a track record of getting stuff done. Getting ship done. Yes. We get it. You get ship done. We get ship done. And And you know your ship. We get fresh off the ship. Yes. We feel like one of our magic things is, “Let’s look at a gap. Let’s figure out how to fix it. And let’s put a team on it that works.” And and quite frankly, my board never likes to hear me say this, but I’ll get a call and someone will say, “Hey, we really want to raise some money.

And we really want to help refugees.” I’ll be like, “Great, that’s awesome.” But then they’ll say, “We’re a development group and we want to really help with housing or do something. And we want to raise money.” And I’ll say, “You know what? I love this, but let me connect you to the best possible avenue to do this.” And a lot of times it’s just connecting people to the right place. Sure. And I I I frequently, especially as I see some of these safety nets going away that were provided by some federal funding, I’m connecting donors to more logical places that need support because we’re a gap filler and some of these gaps we can’t fill.

And so I’m saying, “Hey, this is an organization that provides care for individuals that have been tortured. We can’t do that. Can you donate to them?” Or this is an organization that provides English language skills and they really need some support. So I feel like I’m a little bit like a service broker where it’s like an old-time operator where, you know, the operator would get a call and they get the little plug and then they have to put it in the hole to the right person. Those of you that are really young might not get that analogy but Caleb gets it. But He’s really young. I find that when people call me, I might not

be the perfect match but I might be able to tell them where in the refugee community they would be the perfect match. where to put that plug. And so I’m really I I’m not in this job to move myself forward. I’m in this job to connect the resources to the right people and if the refugees benefit, I benefit. And that’s such a skill as a director to be able to say, “Look, our mission is this and we’re not going to and this organization over here does this better than we do. Let’s partner. Let’s collaborate instead of trying to make this fit into your mission.” Yeah. It’s tough. And and, you know, there’s have been a

lot of times when someone comes to me and I really want to capture that funding or capture that because it makes us look good. But really what I find is if I connect them to the best place, it ultimately is the best outcome and it’s best for me anyway. So that’s a little bit different perspective. Do you think there is a misperception regarding the resources utilized for refugees as opposed to natural-born US citizens? So, you know, um there’s a lot of people that want to put America first and I can see that. Um, certainly we want our our families to do well. Um, I use an analogy sometimes. Um, if I were at home and

you know, my neighbor’s house is on fire. I’m not going to ignore my neighbor. I’m going to do what I can to help. And you know, I might have rusty pipes or my fence might be falling down, but if my neighbor’s house is on fire, I I’m not going to say, “Hey, my fence is falling down. I can’t really help you. You know, I’ve got my own stuff to work on. So, you’re just going to have to stay in that burning house.” And I find that we’re so much better when we help those that need the help. And, you know, I I I I I I I feel like we can do both. We can

do it We really can do both. And we’re benefited by both. And, you know, those resources that go to refugees when they initially get here come back manyfold later on in life through their taxes. Do you know how many refugees and immigrants start businesses? Yeah. Cuz they’re risk-takers. And they generate income and revenue, so it we really are paid back. And I frequently think about um, if I were to be you know, if I were a refugee and I was sent to a country and culture that was radically different than my own, I would hope initially there would be people that would help me to start. And that initial support really we benefit from as

well. And so I don’t think it’s lost and we recoup it in really beautiful ways as we help them become part of our community. But if we never help them initially, then they’re stuck in that system. So, the more we can do to help them initially to get on their feet, the better they’re going to do and the more they’re going to contribute. Yeah. I imagine with holidays you probably get hit up a lot for needs, whether it’s Thanksgiving or Christmas. Um what can what can the general public do to help support and and your cause? So, we do a couple of things. We’ve learned through the years that if we give refugees turkeys and

canned goods, they have no idea what to do with those things. Let’s face it, a lot of Americans don’t even know what to do with the turkey, you know? They It’s like, “Okay.” And and so we’ve discovered it’s better to give them a grocery gift card or a Visa gift card to go to the halal market to buy what they want and they can incorporate their own food and their own culture. So, that’s the best way to help during like Thanksgiving holidays. People say, “Oh, I want to take a turkey dinner to a refugee family.” And they’re just It’s foreign to them. They don’t even have Thanksgiving, first of all. Yeah. So, that’s one thing

and then we used to do a little bit like a sub for Santa, but over the years we found that that’s very cumbersome. There’s language, there’s cultural differences, there’s modesty difference with Muslims. Like, you can’t just go buy the things for that family. And then we want to protect them from someone just showing up with items on I mean, there’s sometimes some people out there looking for vulnerable people to prey on, unfortunately. So, we do what’s called the Gathering of Light and um a lot of refugees have different faith backgrounds, so we don’t want to impose all of our religious and Christmas culture on them. We but that we want them to see a part

of it. So, we call it the gathering of light and we usually have about 400 refugee families that attend and we make it an indoor winter carnival. So, we have face painting, we have decorations, we have activities, we have games. And every year we do something really fun with the kids. This year the kids will get a book bag that they get to color a design with fabric markers on and then they get to pick out a book. So, we’re collecting new books like traditional favorites Mhm. and it’s been fun. We’ve had grandmas that take their kids grandkids to go buy their favorite book to give to a refugee. Um we have neighborhoods that are

doing instead of neighbor gifts they’re collecting children’s books and they’ll bring them to us. So, we’re collecting children’s books. Almost every refugee family loves soccer or football. Whatever it’s called in their culture. So, we’re giving every family a soccer ball. What do you call it in your country? You call it soccer or football? Football. Yeah. Yeah. So, um we’re giving a football and then the other thing we’re collecting is um um the compact umbrellas like you take on a trip. Because a lot of refugees are walking in the snow, they’re waiting at the bus, they want to shade themselves. So, we’re giving everyone a a compact umbrella every family. So, the kids will get a

book and we we make more of the event about the celebration and connection with the community than the gifts. Though the gifts are important. So, the kids will get their book bag and their books. And then with the we’ll also have the teens do some activities. And then when the family leaves we’re giving them a grocery cart like one of those rolling carts you know, that you see mostly older women at the bus stop with. But refugees are walking and they’re on the bus. So, we’re giving them one of those. We’re giving them a bag of oranges. We’re giving them a few other items. So, people can sponsor a family for $50. So, every kid

leaves with a gift. Every teen leaves with a gift. But, we have lots of activities going on. And then, the family will leave with a gift. And one of the really cool things that we’re doing at this party is we’re giving um the kids developmental appropriate toys. So, we have about 400 bags of developmentally appropriate toys that have been specifically selected for 0 to 1, 1 to 2, 2 to 3. And we’re teaching refugee parents how to be their child’s first and best teacher. And the cool thing about this is at this event, we’re going to model for them at tables these activities that you can do with your kids that are developmentally appropriate. If

you’ve been in a refugee camp and you can’t put your baby on the floor, they don’t develop tummy time you know, like we do. Or, the high-contrast books. Or, the stacking toys. And so, we have these beautiful developmental kits that those kids will receive when they leave. And we’re going to model for them at this event these activities you can do with your kids. A lot of refugees don’t realize they’re their child’s first and most important teacher because they might not be literate in their own language. Or, they might not have had access to these toys and activities. And so, we want these refugee kids to hit these developmental milestones. So, when they get to

school, they’re prepared. So, it’s a really cool fun activity. So, that happens. So, they can find us on our social media feed Serve Refugees or on our website. But, we are collecting those children’s books, soccer balls and pumps, and umbrellas. But, we need them by 10th. So, that’s a really easy way. And just following our social media feed on Facebook and Instagram, every day we’re giving you different ways to learn serve and give. Now, where do we find those again? So, our website is serverefugees.org. Mhm. Or you can go on serverefugees on Instagram and Facebook. And we’re posting those things all the time. You can message us with questions. You can also print the downloadable

flyer of things you can do during the holidays. And then we are collecting coats for adults and warm boots. We find that adults get looked over. It’s funner to buy a new coat for a little kid, but a lot of kids can access those at the schools, whereas the moms and dads are the ones going out to work and they’re waiting for the bus and they’re walking. So, we’re just collecting those, but we’re collecting those into January. So, if you miss like dropping off books and soccer balls and umbrellas by December 10th, you can go get warm new coats and boots and hats and bring it to us for adults through January. And are all

of those donations, are you looking for new donations? Are you looking for donations we want to try and do new, just because Yeah. you want to feel you I mean we want to give something that makes them feel good and valued. And one of the most important things is helping refugees feel like people in the community want them here. Especially right now the political climate’s kind of hot. And some of them don’t feel like people want them here. And it’s so beautiful when they come to this event and they’re like, “These people care. They want me here. I can get a book. I can get, you know, I can get a grocery cart that I

can roll with me when I go to the store.” I mean the interactions are really beautiful. Are there opportunities to donate more gently used items at other times of the year or is are there other resources that you would we have on our website um Lifting Hands International always takes used furniture. They help set up the apartments. Mattresses and bed frames. do a lot of really frame sitting in my garage right now. Yeah, Lifting Hands International. We try and put in them in the right places. I know a lot of people want to donate clothing, but we find clothing is really hard for us to distribute because of some of these cultures where they don’t

wear the same things we do, and they they have modesty. So, we encourage people to either donate to Deseret Industries or The Other Side Academy thrift store. And two reasons for that is Deseret Industries actually employs a lot of refugees. And that clothing might not go directly to them, but Deseret Industries through the church also donates a lot of vouchers for refugees to go pick clothing. And that’s a huge selection. Yeah. And then The Other Side Academy, we have a partnership with where they move a lot of refugees and help go pick up mattresses and set up the beds. And so, we love supporting The Other Side Academy thrift stores. So, there are places to

donate, but but we try and be really smart about the most systematic way to get those and distribute those. Yeah. You know what I love is The Other Side Academy, or The Other Side Village donut shop. Oh, yeah. Do you know who’s providing our donuts for our Gathering of Light celebration? Um The Other Side Academy donuts. What? Village donuts Yeah, we’re one and the same. village The Other Side donuts. I know. The Other Side, they’re really blueberry blueberry Most Most refugees like donuts. Yeah. I found. I think Yeah, like you could go around the globe, and like so it’s be a that would be like a 99% thing. You could ship them. I We should.

We should ship them. I have a I have a question a few more questions. We’re going to We’re not going to keep you here all night. Just after the night is over. me I always love talking about this because anytime I can advocate for my friends, I’ll do it. You’ve been exposed to lots of different cultures and lots of different family and individual traditions. Is there a favorite cultural tradition that you’ve come across? Um there’s maybe two. Um the first one is um I I’ve started get exposed to a lot of different religions um because there’s so many different religions in their refugee culture and um Oh man, now I’m thinking of a million. But

um in Islam, there’s 99 sacred names for God. And you know, they’re Arabic and then there’s the translation of what that means. And um as you read through all these attributes for God, 99, I don’t know if I could come up with 99 names for God in my own faith tradition. But I love that when they’re praying, they use the attribute of God that they’re most looking for. The forgiving attribute or the giving attribute. So when they pray, they use his name that has that attribute. And it’s made me think about my own personal meditation or prayers with God is thinking about what attribute of that God am I seeking as I meditate and pray.

Mhm. So I love that. It’s really expanded my perception of what God is like. Mhm. Um another really beautiful experience that I had is I was invited to a baby shower for a Somali um woman. And you know, in my mind I’m thinking, oh I’m I’m to go get a onesie and some things and go blanket But luckily I asked. I said, “Okay, so tell me a little bit about what to expect at this baby shower.” And this one woman said, “Well, when you come, you just bring money.” I’m like, “Okay.” And so, you know, I put a little money in my pocket. I show up for this baby shower. And I get there and

I can’t see anyone in like the living room, maybe one or two people in the kitchen. What I realized is they had taken all the furniture out of their basement and put it in their garage. And then they laid out blankets all over the floor in the basement and all the women gathered and sat on the floor. And in the middle of the the basement area there was this huge spray of food. Everything you could possibly imagine from their culture. And everyone is eating and talking and smiling and I’m kind of like, you know, I I’m I’m the odd one out. I I was feeling like they do a lot of the time where everyone

knows the normal culture of Americans, but then the Somalis, you know, have to accommodate. Well, this time I’m the odd person out. And I’m watching and I’m observing and I’m kind of like feeling a little out of place. And they’re like, “Eat, eat.” And what I didn’t realize is whoever the child is being named after, that aunt or the uncle, they collect money and then they buy a beautiful piece of jewelry for them to give that child in honor of, “Hey, you named this child after me.” And it was really sweet as we sat there, after a little while all of a sudden they started singing this chant. And it was like a lullaby, but

it was the Somali culture honoring this new baby. And the mom came in and sat on a bench as they’re chanting and singing the song, and I am bawling. It’s so tender and so sweet. And then the aunt who the baby’s named after comes in and she presents this piece of jewelry to this new baby that had just been born that has her name. And then everyone contributed to that aunt’s fund to buy that jewelry. And then we I went to leave and they’re like, “No, no, no, you can’t leave. We have food for your family to take home.” They had made enough food for every person that came to that shower to take home

to give to their family. Because you took time with us and you didn’t have time to cook because you came to the shower, we’re sending you home with I mean, I probably had eight cartons of food to take home to my family. And I just was like, you know, as Americans we’re hurrying. We go to the baby shower, we hurry, get it done, we go home, you know, it was all about sharing that time together, honoring the aunt, honoring the baby, giving the families food to take home so they could spend time together with these other women. I mean, these happen to me all the time that enlighten my perspective about how family, how religion,

how culture, if we take the best parts of all these Mhm. I don’t like the term melting pot. Like it it it seems to say that you melt everything down and change it into something different. I like to think about it as a mosaic that everyone brings a little piece of what’s most beautiful in their culture, and then we create this amazing mosaic of goodness. And that’s kind of how I see those that. That’s a great analogy. So, yeah, I mean, I’ve there’s a million stories like that. Those are great stories. Yeah. Love that. If there if you could do anything else in your life, what would you do? Oh, jeez, that is a hard

one. Obviously, I can always relate something to what I’d like to see happen. I’ve got a lot of ideas on shelves, especially for the refugee population. But I think one of the things that I’ve always been very passionate about is always leaving things better than you found them. Whether it’s going into the convenience store and getting your morning drink, how could you leave things better than you found them? If you go to work, how could you leave things better than you found them? And at the end of my life, I think I would hope that um in every situation I encountered, I left things better than I found them. Mhm. I like that. I like

that answer. I’m going to incorporate that. I’m going to put that on my board. Leave it better than you found it. you think about nonprofit work and humanitarian work, you think of these big giant Yes. projects and like you want to collect a whole bunch of things, but really so much is done by little, small, simple, and meaningful acts Mhm. in our daily lives. Um and just meeting people where they are. Um one of my most tender experiences happened at the Share House with a uh imagine being a blind refugee woman Mhm. in a new country where you don’t speak the language. So, everything you’re hearing is just garble. And a man that cared tremendously

about this woman brought him into our Share house, and she needed some household items. And we’re trying to say, “Do you need toilet paper? Do you need laundry soap? Do you need” And Can’t She She doesn’t know what we’re saying, and she can’t see the item. And I just was like, “How are Like” Touch it. So finally, I knelt down in front of her with a bag of items. And I handed her each item. And I would hold it, and she would feel it and touch it and touch my hands. And then she would nod her head and say, “Yes.” I’d hand her the toilet paper, she’d feel it and touch it. And she’d say,

“No.” She’d You know, she knew enough to say no. And we went through like 20 items. And we kept putting the things she needed on one side, and the things she didn’t need. And then when we were finished, she just took my hand in her hands. And didn’t She couldn’t say anything. You know, cuz she didn’t have the language. But I could feel so much from her. It was such a magical moment, and it was just meeting her where she was at. And m- And then she was meeting me where she was at. And I think just giving someone a hug and actually meaning it. Not like a little side hug, but like a hug

where you really embrace someone, and they know you mean it. That can be magical. So it doesn’t have to be a big grandiose, “Let’s collect 100 coats.” It could be “Oh, I’m going to give this person a meaningful hug.” Mhm. So just leaving things a little better than you found them. Mhm. Love it. So great. It is. Man, I I’m just blown away by everything you said and just all the takeaways from this sit down. There’s so many things that we can just um put in our own life. Well, I feel like I’ve had an education. Oh, I’m glad. I’m glad I could do something to make a difference. You left You definitely left this

place better Oh, thanks. you found it. And we can’t tell you how much we appreciate you being here and sharing your story. My gosh, thank you so much. Well, thank you. an It’s an amazing story. them. I love the networking and I love um that there are a lot of people that care and that are doing ship Mhm. to make a difference in the community. Do your ship. E-Hub is doing their giving their best to Yeah. to give a ship about a lot of people. Well, Amy Dot, thank you so much. you. amazing visiting with you. I hope you’ll come back sometime and and uh give us an update. I will. Thank you for listening

to the Know Your Ship podcast presented by E-Hub. Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a review.