Building Lion Energy: Tyler Hortin on Powering What’s Next

There is not one person that knows the right answer. >>
Mhm. >> And being able to think about and talk through what is the best
solution for this uh situation is is definitely the most important way to
make those decisions. >> Welcome to the Know Your Ship podcast
presented by EHUB. I’m your host Frank Dolce. >> Tyler Horton. It’s not
Horton, here’s a who. No. >> And it’s H O R T I N. >> That’s
right. >> Uh from Oram, Utah. And the president CEO. What’s your actual
title? >> CEO. >> CEO Energy of Lion Energy. >> And I I
also noticed on your link LinkedIn you’re the CFO. Is that accurate? of
American battery >> factory. >> Yes. >> Well, I can’t wait
to have this chat. I’m really interested. I I guess I’ve always just been
kind of interested on the side about renewable energy, but then I’ve been
listening to a bunch of the podcasts that you’ve done and reading through
your website and now I think all of a sudden that it’s accessible for me to
utilize renewable energy. And I’m not talking about just like a battery pack
for my phone, which you guys do manufacture as well, >> but more on a
on a broad homebased in a homebased way. I hope you’ll be able to tell me all
about that. >> For sure. Yes, batteries are accessible, usable every
day. Um, Lion Energy helps people to um do that and um add technology to the
number one spend anybody has, which is energy. >> Is that right?
>> Yeah. >> I thought the number one spend in the United States
of America was fishing and game. Have you ever heard that statistic? >>
Maybe. Um, >> that’s true. I think >> maybe recreation. >>
It is. Yeah. People spend the when you say that people spend the most amount
of money on which recreational activity and it’s fishing. >> Are you a
fisherman? >> Do you fish? >> I fish. Yes, I’ve been to Alaska.
>> Really? >> Yeah. >> How was that experience? >> It
was awesome. >> I bet you needed some renewable energy up there.
>> I did. Yeah, I Well, I bring >> Do you bring it all? You
always pack in heat. >> Yep. I’m really interested in the batteries,
like the marine and batteries and stuff. Anyway, we’ll get into that. But I
think the interesting thing we were just talking about before we started up
here is how your family got to Utah. You your Okay, so your dad’s family has
deep roots in Utah. >> That’s right. >> Uh Oakley and >>
Midway. >> Midway. >> Yes. >> Okay. So that’s those are
pretty close. >> Yeah. >> That’s your dad’s family. Okay. But
your mom’s family has this interesting story. Do you want to tell it?
>> Yeah, for sure. Um, so my grandpa was um German and uh back then um
everybody was was part of the you know the army and so >> this during
World War II. >> World War II. Yep. >> Okay. So he was part of
the German army World War II. Okay. >> Yes. And so he was taken
prisoner of war here in the US. Um shot in the leg or or whatever. Was he
shot? So he was shot in Germany and brought over to the US. >>
Something like that. >> I’m not sure, but I know he was prisoner of war
in Florida. >> Really? Okay. >> And then after the war was sent
home to Germany. >> Mhm. >> Um met my my grandma and were married
and had kids and my mom was one of them. And um at she I think she was three
when she came to the US. >> And did they all come over to the United
States? Grandparents and your mom. Well, grandparents and family. And where
did they end up? >> In Ohio. And they had a um two other kids after my
mom here in in the US. So, um, and then my my grandpa was a sausage maker, I
believe, in Ohio. >> Your grandpa from Germany was a sausage maker
>> in Ohio. >> In Ohio. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> And
then my mom moved during college and went to college at BYU. So, >> Oh.
And then stuck around >> and stuck around. Met my dad. >> Met
your dad and stuck around. >> Got married and and then they actually
and then they moved to California. That’s that I was I was officially born in
California, but then came back to Utah pretty young. >> Which part of
California? >> LA. Yeah. Wittier. >> Do you know what’s really
interesting about that? >> What? >> Is I have a son at Whittier
College right now. >> Oh, >> in Whittier. >> Awesome
California. I grew up in Southern California. >> Oh, there you go.
>> And then came to school here. Now my son goes to Whittier College.
>> Huh. >> Wow. Your hometown. >> Yep. Is there a sign says
Tyler Horton was born here in Whittier? Well, that’s that is a great story.
>> Yeah, >> that’s a fascinating story. Have you ever been back
to have you been back to Germany? Do you still have family back there?
>> No, most most there there’s a few um distant, but uh most were
killed in in the war. Gotcha. >> So, Wow. >> There um there were
a couple that were here in the US actually. So, um it was not just my
immediate grandparents. A couple of my um grandma’s siblings came over.
>> Gotcha. >> Yeah. >> I we could probably do a whole
podcast on your family on that background. Coming over the world, World War
II, coming over here, being in that experience. >> Yeah. It was not
World War II was not a great experience for my grandpa. So, I’m sure it
wasn’t. He um I can’t say I have a lot of great story stories. >> So he
pro you probably didn’t sit around the dinner table talking about all of the
World War II experiences. That wasn’t the topic? >> Definitely not. >>
Was renewable energy the topic? >> No. >> No. >> That was
later. Yeah, that was later. >> I’ve learned that on my own. So,
>> okay. Your grandpa’s a sausage maker in Ohio. What is your Utah
grandpa or grandparents? What are they doing? What did they do? >> So,
my grandpa has passed away. Um, he was, um, I think he was in the dairy
business and then my grandma, she she’s still alive here in Midville, Utah.
>> Oh, that’s >> And um, she Yeah, she was stay at home most of
her life, but then um I think she did some insurance at the end of her
>> is that right? >> Life. Yeah. >> Fascinating. her
working life. >> Okay. So, you grew up in Oram. >> Mhm. >>
Went to ORM High, ended up at BYU, but you didn’t study accounting. What What
What was your major at BYU? >> My undergrad was in in the engineering
college um information technology. >> Yeah. And then you went and got a
master’s at UT Dallas. >> Mhm. >> Uh in accounting. Okay.
>> And you’re currently a CPA. >> I am. Did you so did you have
an affinity for that as you were growing up? Like working with numbers, math,
logical thinking? >> My my dad My dad uh >> is everyone in your
family stunned that you’re a CPA? >> No, my dad was a is a CPA. He he
worked when he when we were in California, he was working for Arthur
Anderson. Yeah. Yeah. Doing, >> you know, stuff there. So it’s in the
family. >> When your when your dad was a CPA and you were growing up,
did you think were you thinking, “Wow, that is really cool. I love that.
I love what my dad is doing.” Or did he talk about it in a certain way
that you became interested in it? >> No, I I was interested in business
and business um the best foundation for business is is accounting. So
>> it’s so true. >> But I knew accounting. I grew up doing
bookkeeping when I was 16 and things like that. >> With your dad for
businesses, just small businesses around. So >> I would do that and
then um I decided to do something different for college. >> Ah.
>> So my undergrad Yeah. I decided to do >> Yeah. some
engineering or whatever. >> Gotcha. Yeah. >> You know who else
did? You know who else did? But I I want to follow up on this bookkeeping you
did 16 years old. >> Yeah. >> Uh there’s a funny there’s a funny
line in I don’t know if you’ve ever seen the movie The Other Guys with Will
Frell. >> Yeah. >> And Mark Wahberg. If you haven’t, it’s
hilarious. >> Mhm. And there’s a line in that movie when well Frell is
talking about how he audited his parents when he was a teenager and he found
some discrepancies. >> Yeah. >> I’m kind of picturing you
>> doing that with like did you go around the neighborhood? You weren’t
you didn’t have a paper route. You were like, “Hey, >> I bet I
could manage your books.” No, it my dad would have clients that needed
needed help and >> you know >> it was a great thing. >> You
were walking around the neighborhood with a black suit, black tie, pocket
protector, glasses, offering bookkeeping services. So you you were doing some
bookkeeping. You decided to go a different path. You said that the best
foundation for business is accounting. I think it’s like those, you know,
accounting and finance. People with those backgrounds always seem to find
their way up the chain. Have has that been your experience? >> It has.
I um so I lived in Dallas with my wife >> for five or so years and then
um we decided to move back to Utah and um I joined a manufacturing company
>> in um fi finance. I was their CFO. >> Mhm. And so, um, that’s
how I started my Utah career and grew with that company. And out of that
company, we founded Lion Energy. >> Oh. So, >> so Okay. Is that
manufacturing company still around? >> No, we um at one point in 2016
>> Uhhuh. Um we sold off the food company and then >> focused on
Lion Energy. Um it was a emergency based food manufacturing company. >>
Okay. >> Yeah. Back in the day. >> Gotcha. Okay. So out of that
experience, what made you determine that renewable energy or battery
manufacturing was going to be a lucrative career? So, it wasn’t an aha moment
or anything like that. It was uh one of our customers in food >> wanted
a generator uh a batterybased backup generator for emergencies. >> Mhm.
>> And so we did that. Um and it sold really well. >> And so
that’s how it started. Um it was um at in the beginning it was just a white
label product and then um >> so when you say a white label product were
you someone else was manufacturing it you were buying it and putting it under
your own brand and essentially >> at that time we didn’t really have a
brand. Yeah. So just selling it. >> Okay. You were just reselling the
third party. Yeah. Okay. And then um we realized the the power, >> no
pun intended. Who said who said accountants didn’t have a sense of humor? So,
uh it it was interesting and and um we determined it was it was a great thing
and um decided to start doing our own engineering and start to develop
products and so um it’s it’s been a bootstrapped company since the beginning.
So we used profits to to grow and do our R&D. >> Mhm. >> Um
and then build new new products. So in the beginning it was all portables and
we still sell that today and in Costco and places like that. >> And
then um about four or five years ago we started doing our sanctuary product
which is a whole home system. >> Yeah. Yeah. And we’ll talk about that
as well. That one’s >> And then we expanded into commercial and utility
products also. >> So we can go all the way up to just really large
batteries that help you the utility to store energy. >> All under Lion.
>> All under Lion. Yeah. >> It’s not like Lion residential, Lion
commercial. It’s all kind of one. We do have a different division that
focuses on the commercial utility. Um it is a lot more um engineering and
things like that upfront um to to be able to do that. But um yeah, it’s all
part of the same company and it all comes back to um technology. I consider
us a a product company but also um primarily a technology company. >>
Mhm. and being able to use storage to be able to create resilient um energy
usage as the grid ages. >> Mhm. >> Um batteries allow whether
it’s the home commercial building utility or even you know on the go whether
you’re going to the beach or going fishing. um you could bring energy with
you uh super easily because >> the lithium chemistry and and we focus
primarily on the LFP chemistry which is the safest >> which is which
stands for >> um LFP it’s known as LF P4 but it’s lithium iron
phosphate >> okay >> um >> and that is it advantageous
because of What? >> So, when you hear about cars or scooters burning up
>> Mhm. >> it’s usually going to be an NMC type, >> which
includes cobalt and different things that is a lot more. >> It’s good
for 0 to 60 in 3 seconds, but it’s not great for safety. >> And so, um,
we focus on safety and storage, um, in the home. So, we want our products to
be be used in a building and so we start with um the safest chemistry to do
that with. >> Okay. This is a little off topic, but since you mentioned
it, the safety the batteries that you’re talking about uh what did you call
it? Ni >> LF LFP. No, that’s yours. And what is the other? >> Oh,
NMC. >> NMC. Okay. And those are those uh mostly what we would see in
EV vehicle in EVs. >> Yes. >> So yeah, here in the US that’s
where um most EVs started where it was >> NMC or NCA um chemistry.
>> Okay. And that is >> not as safe. Would that be fair to say?
>> Right. or is not as stable or not as safe as what you’re producing.
>> So, um it’s not as safe. It’s it’s pretty stable um unless you
puncture it or do there’s there’s a lot you can do to make it more safe, but
um at some point the chemistry is what it is >> and will do what it
will do. And um the that chemistry is really good for going 0 to 60 in 3
seconds >> and doing it really quickly. >> Mhm. >> It’s not
great for um long-term use. It It’s going to have fewer, we call them life
cycles, which is how many times you charge or discharge it. Um, so it doesn’t
last as long, but um, also it’s um, if you puncture it um, or you there’s
something called thermal runaway. >> Mhm. >> If you go into one
of those um, the repercussions are um, hard to deal with. So your phone also
typically has that type of chemistry in it. And um there was a fire back east
somewhere and they had a whole bunch of phone batteries just sitting there
and once one went all the others started, you know, going and it it’s
impossible to stop >> to put it out. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So,
this just happened on a ship. >> Yeah. moving vehicles from I I’m going
to get it wrong, but they’re moving vehicles overseas to the United States.
>> Mhm. >> K catches on fire, they can’t they can’t put it out.
>> No. >> And the ship sinks with all of the 3,000 vehicles on
the ship. And that’s the danger with that particular battery setup. >>
Yes, it’s very difficult. and um you basically have to smother it somehow,
but you’re dealing with thousands of degrees, so it’s super hot. So, it’s
really and that’s why it spreads so much is because of the the chemistry
there. Ah >> so LFP has a different reaction um >> which is much
more controllable um and you can um you can manufacture it in larger formats
because of that um which are much safer. >> Yeah. >> So that’s do
interesting. Okay. So, as we’re still going down this why did you start a
battery company, a renewable energy company, did you was there some uh was
there a profitability opportunity that you liked about a battery company? Was
there some um environmental concern that you thought you could answer by
building a battery company? what were what were all of the things that were
going through your head and your partner’s heads when you started this?
>> I mean, it started with profitability. Um and then as we understood
the the possibilities and understood um some of the products that we could
bring to market um we use we we think every building in America should have
storage as a part of it. >> And um the reason that’s important I
there’s a story uh I like to tell. Yeah. So, um there’s somebody um out in
North Carolina. >> Mhm. >> He was um thinking about improving his
um energy bill. Um the more and more we use energy with AI and and and
Bitcoin and all that stuff. Um it’s becoming more and more expensive for the
end end consumer. So, everyday user of of energy. And so, um, with batteries
and with solar, you can save money on your power bill. And that’s what he
wanted to do. So, last summer, he puts our sanctuary product and some solar
in his house. Um, he also has the Starlink for for internet. >> Mhm.
>> And, um, >> so he did it to save money, but then um, the
hurricane came through. >> Uhhuh. and his city was out of power for
weeks. Yeah. And >> um you think about it, when the power goes out,
you’re completely dependent on the grid. >> Um he’s not because he has
batteries and and solar connected to his home and he’s able to share um
internet with 50 plus neighbors that he had in his city. And um you think
about when we have a disaster or some you know the fires in California,
things like that that just knock out the grid. >> Mhm. um we instantly
become, you know, third world country without power or whatever water and
>> and um that is some of the most difficult repercussions of natural
disasters and things like that are people that are completely dependent on
energy whether it’s for oxygen or whatever. And um anyway, he was he was the
hurricane didn’t slow him down and they were able to recover and have power
and internet throughout that whole ordeal. >> Yeah. >> So,
>> well, that just shows like a lot of people they when they hear
batteries, they’re thinking backup. Um, that is one thing that you can do.
But, >> but bad batteries are really a a cool way to add technology to
the grid and just um be able to do um continue to live live your life the way
that you expect to live it and um you know move forward without having to
worry about it. >> Okay. And so I want to talk about this the sanctuary
product. Um, and I’m wondering if we should talk about that now or we should
talk about where you started and built up to the sanctuary product. The one
thing that you mentioned is he purchased it or he installed it to save money.
>> So let me just ask you that quickly and then we’ll and then we’ll
rewind. What what is the cost-saving application with the sanctuary product
when you install it in your home? So, there’s a lot of a lot of ways that you
can save. Um, if you live in Texas, there’s um there’s times of day that
during the summer that um when it’s really hot that it becomes 10 to 20 times
more expensive than it is at night when AC doesn’t have to be used as much.
Um, >> with batteries you can store during cheap time and use during
expensive time. That’s one way. >> Okay. So, like, let me just make
sure I get this. In Texas, if you’re running your air conditioner during
extremely hot times, it’s more expensive. >> Yes. >> Off the
grid. >> Yes. You can store energy during the >> at night when
it’s less expensive >> and then run it off the battery >> during
the day. >> during the day. Gotcha. >> There’s also um if you
have a gas generator >> Mhm. >> you can um with batteries, you
can turn on the gas generator, fill up your batteries, and then turn it off.
And our system will do that for you. Run off the batteries until it gets down
to a certain percentage and then say, “Hey, gas generator, turn back on,
>> fill it back up.” So, um, you know, a tenth the amount of time that
you’re running that generator or whatever. >> Sure. >> Depending
on how you’re using your energy, but um you could be have the gas generator
turned off while you’re running off your batteries. Um, in the North Carolina
case, he was focused on solar. >> Mhm. >> And creating your own
energy. You can put that on your roof. It’s passive. Once you install it,
it’s there and it’s running and it happens in the background without you
having to even know what it is doing. Um, that’s what our engineers focus on
is really adding that technology to it and being able to understand when is
the best time to charge the battery, when is the best time to use solar and
um be able to do that in the background for you with our system. So, your platform
will help make those determinations about when it’s appropriate to use it.
And does it automate it? >> It automates >> and it automates it.
>> Yeah. I mean, everyday person might not know, hey, what’s the best
way to do this? >> Yeah. I would Yeah. I wouldn’t have 10 years ago.
And so um it’s but that’s what we focus on is really adding and so when I say
adding technology to the grid it’s adding storage so that you can do things
that um are good for you as the consumer >> and depending on how
utility rates are you can save a lot of money. So, it doesn’t have to cost
anything and in fact, you can save money by doing it uh depending on where
you’re at and what the application is. >> Mhm. >> And so, um what
are some of those you you just said depending on where you’re at? So, what is
what are some of those restrictions depending on where you’re at? >>
So, like in Texas, you’ve got time of use billing every 15 minutes. They they
have a different billing schedule. And so, um, being able to like take
advantage of when it when energy is expensive or or cheap, it’s good for the
utility also because the reason they do that is it’s more expensive for them
>> to produce the energy when it gets expensive. >> Mhm. >>
Um, here in the state of Utah right now, um, there’s a flat rate billing. Um,
eventually maybe they’ll go to time of use. they’ve they’ve talked about it,
but um >> so Utah, it’s harder to take advantage of that, but you can
still use solar and be able to use that in the home first. >> Mhm.
>> And um so you can always save money on your power bill, uh depending
on how expensive the the energy is. Here in the state of Utah, we’ve got the
I think we’re number two cheapest energy in the US. >> So, it’s a lot
more difficult. But, um, another misconception is batteries >> Mhm.
>> last 20 to 30 years. >> Mhm. And if you get the right um
finance product, you can still there’s almost no scenario where you can’t
save money. And then um over time um as rates continue to increase um you
continue to save. And um there were a lot of people back in the when solar
was being installed everywhere that they just installed solar and sold it
back to the grid. >> Yeah. >> And um our system doesn’t do that.
It runs the home first. And so um adding batteries and and what we do um
allows you to actually run your home on the the solar. So, there’s a lot of
people that may have been grandfathered into a net metering position that
might find um batteries and and our system to be a better um a better
solution to what they’re doing right now to take advantage of the solar that
they put on their home. Um I’m a big fan of solar. It’s passive. It’s green.
it’s it helps the environment. So, um being able to use that with batteries
is is a great thing and to run your home, you know, why not do that? And um
there’s so many great finance products out there to make it affordable so you
don’t have to pay a whole bunch of money upfront if you can’t afford it. If
you can um maybe maybe it’s it’s better. I don’t know. But it depends on on
the situation of the person doing it. But it’s it’s never been more
accessible than it is today. >> And um the technology um the great
another good thing about what we do is is we continue to increase and improve
our technology every day. Um our apps get better and better. our um
understanding of billing rates and utility rates uh get better and better and
how we um use those to save people money will continue to improve >>
over time. So the other thing you mentioned is safety. What what are the what
are the biggest safety concerns with the Lion Energy product? So, our product
is completely safe. I’m not I have our product in my basement of my house and
I feel um very secure. Um we are constantly um monitoring our products and we
um we know exactly um how it’s performing and things like that and we can let
you know if um not not necessarily for safety reasons, but if you need an
upgrade on on batteries or whatever, but um to improve your performance.
performance. So, um it’s it’s a very safe product. >> Gotcha. Okay.
Now, we’re going to go back to the beginning. You started out with a solar
>> generator, >> right? >> Is that correct? >> Yes.
>> And you had a little bit of success with that. And then what was
your next what’s the evolution of Lion? What’s your next step? Did you get a
group of guys in the room and you said, “Hey, we should do >> this
thing.” >> In the beginning, it was improving that portable
system, getting better. >> And what was the portable system? What What
would you use it for? What was the use case? >> Large appliances like
fridge, freezer. You think about power going out and keeping it going. Yeah.
>> Communication, you know, being able to charge devices. >> Mhm.
So, um that’s the primary use case for that. But also, um more and more it’s
um you know, bringing it with you. I have mine sitting in my office and I I
take it at least weekly. I I take it on the go with me. Um there’s a lot of
people that do like beach things like that. They want power. Um, the other
day my neighbor took it down to uh a lake down in southern Utah that didn’t
have power or whatever and they had a bount uh like a big inflatable
structure >> Mhm. >> that they put on the lake and with the um
they had um boys, young men down there. And so they spent the day on this
inflatable structure that um normally you you wouldn’t be able to do cuz you
don’t have power down there. >> Yeah. >> And with our system, it
it it allows >> a lot of these pumps are are just they take a lot of
energy, but our portable system can handle it. So, um they were able to
inflate it, use it, and have fun. So, every day you can use our products, and
that’s that’s where we started. Um and then from there, you know, expanding
into whole home commercial and then utility products and all of those have
been in the last four or five years. >> Gotcha. >> Yeah. >>
Okay. If someone like me, let’s just take me. >> Yeah. >> Like
I’m like where do I start with a some renewable energy? like what’s a good starting
point if I’m just if if I’m not going to do the whole sanctuary system in my
house or if I’m just trying to figure out if that’s if that’s right. Is there
a starting point or or how would you how would you coach someone to make that
decision? >> Whatever you want to use every day, that’s where I would
start. We have we have something >> called the claw that sits Yeah.
That’s the phone connects to the phone. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So,
that will charge your phone wirelessly, you know, all day. I use that
regularly >> and um on the go. Um >> my kids use our products
portables every day um in our daily life. I think doing something like that
is a good good way to get started. Mhm. >> Um, and then start thinking
about, you know, your home and what what you want to run always. My my wife’s
biggest concern is security and she wants our home security system to be
running all the time. Wants to be able to turn on the lights. So, >>
our sanctuary is a really good solution to run um the um you know, fridge
freezer. If if power goes out one time >> Mhm. >> you could lose
all your meat in your freezer or whatever. So, >> yeah. >> It
just depends on what what is best for you. >> Yeah, I know. In those
storms, you know, every once in a while the power gets knocked out for some
reason. >> Mhm. And for that, however what period of time that is, it
seems like an eternity. And are you just Well, you’re not, but I’m like
running around freaking out. >> Yeah. >> And then the power comes
back on. You forget about it. You forget about all the stress that you had
and you think maybe you go down to, you know, one of the home improvement
stores and you see like this >> Yeah. >> generator system. Oh,
maybe I should get that. Maybe I shouldn’t. So, our Safari that’s that’s what
it you don’t have to worry about that and that’s what I bring with me
everywhere is it it’ll run anything that essentially anything that plugs into
the wall. So, >> so how and how long does it run? Like will it
continually recharge if it’s on solar or does it run out and then you have to
recharge it and then it runs out or how does it work? >> It does. Yeah.
And we have solar panels that are portable that Yeah. If the storm hits,
power goes out, you can put the solar outside and then we have an extension
cord that will run inside so you can keep your generator inside by whatever
you’re trying to run. Um, keep it up and running and the solar recharges and
so assuming you’re not using too much power, you can keep going forever.
Yeah. >> Which is awesome. Yeah, >> that is. >> Yeah.
>> All right. It’s we’re going to start talking about the more of the the
business of Lion Energy. This what you do is amazing. >> Mhm. >>
I think if people listen just to this point, you might start getting some
phone calls. I want to do the sanctuary. Like that sounds so amazing at my
house, but we’ll see. Did you ever think you would be the CEO of a renewable
energy company? No. And and well, I because of all the stuff you’re talking
about and your accounting background, I mean, that’s a lot of learning that
you had to do about things that maybe you weren’t that interested in
previously. So, I I’m curious about the people that you hired. You mentioned
that you were bootstrap company. Mhm. >> Um, and this seems like an an
a a business that is highly dependent on research and development and having
good scientists, engineers, would I don’t know what you call them in that
industry? >> Are those is that what you call them? >> Engineers.
Yeah, we we work with both. Yeah. >> Okay. >> PhDs. We have
rocket scientists, too. >> You do? Are you producing rockets? >>
A couple of them, actually. >> Really? >> Yeah. They they they
aren’t producing rockets, but they that’s what they were trained in. Yeah.
>> That’s amazing. >> Yeah. >> Okay. What was the most
important hire that you made? >> Yeah. I don’t know that there has been
a most important hire. Um hiring is super important. >> Mhm. and
understanding um the strengths and weaknesses of that person and um deciding
the role that that person will play in your organization is the number one
most important thing for us. And um sometimes that means that person doesn’t
necessarily fit in our organization and a lot of times both people know that
and they will make that decision their themselves or or us. >> Mhm. So
knowing who you are and what you do um is super important and then figuring
out who fits that philosophy, that mindset and making um putting them in the
right position. And sometimes that right position um doesn’t happen right
away, but um having the right people in the right place um is is what’s most
important for me. So, we have this discussion a lot on this podcast. It
sounds like you’re talking about culture and the culture of the organization
and just putting the right people in place and uh and so would it be fair to
say that sometimes a superstar isn’t the right fit within the organization?
>> That’s right. It it really depends on the organization as a whole
>> and where you’re going. um somebody that’s a superstar in one
company might not fit in another and so you think well I’m just going to hire
the the most qualified person this >> and sometimes it doesn’t fit so
>> and you know whether >> you know sometimes >> it’s cost
related sometimes it’s talent related um and a lot of times in In our
industry, the most qualified person might not be the most qualified yet
because the industry is so new. >> Mhm. >> And um we have to
train people on what we do. >> Mhm. because there’s not a lot of talent
here in the US that understands batteries, lithium batteries, clean energy,
and how to put it all together. And so, um, it’s a lot of, you know, give and
take, and there’s a lot of wrong decisions, there’s a lot of right decisions,
and, um, just keep moving forward and, you know, >> Yeah. So speaking
of decisions, how do you make decisions within the organizations? What’s what
what or within the organization? What is your process? >> So we have
five awesome, you know, executives within our organization and um each of
them make a a lot of their own decisions. um >> we do work together as
a team and make decisions together. Um I help to make some of those
decisions, but um I would say my preference on the most important decisions
is to have multiple people in on that decision uh to make the best decision.
Mhm. >> Um so that’s that’s kind of our process is is really um getting
together understanding um humility that there is not one person that knows
the right answer. >> Mhm. >> And being able to think about and
talk through what is the best solution for this uh situation is is definitely
the most important way to make those decisions. >> Yeah. But there’s
you there’s also decisions that need to be made uh quickly. Yeah. And so it’s
um give and take and just figuring out what the right you know. >> Have
you ever made uh as a as a company, have you ever made a bad decision? Have
you ever had an obstacle that you’ve had to overcome? >> Absolutely.
Yeah. Every every >> day. Every year. There’s there’s a lot of you know
wrong