Building a Brand with Heart: The Story of Perk Energy

My grief took me like deeply took me tothe point where getting
out of the bed was just it it was a struggle every single day.Welcome to the
Know Your Ship podcast presented by e-hub. I’m your host Frank Dolce.Reena
Dolman with us today of Perk Energy, CEO and founder. Yes,we were just
talking off air uh about some of your products and I wasasking you about spec
specifically the hydrate hydration project product andall of the ingredients
and everything else and it sounds like you have like asports nutrition and
medical background but I don’t I’ve done a lot of researchyes in preparation
for this I don’t see that no noin your profile Wow. So, I think that’s
fascinating. Yeah. Well, like all of this knowledge that you’vegained in
developing this this product. So, I maybe I’d like to start there.Like, where
did this all come from? Well, I think as far as like the theproduct itself
and ingredients and things like that, it’s it’s just a passion. My health has
been something that hasbeen, you know, a deep passion, I think, my whole
life. But as I’ve gotten older,I have become deeply passionate about
understanding how our emotions work inour physical body and taking care of
our body, then how it balances to our emotions and our mental health and
andjust all the synergy that works there. So, it is something that I’m super
passionate about. And I think that’s thecool thing about like the day and age
that we’re in is you can be passionate about something and there is so much
tolearn. There’s so many ways to learn. There’s so many resources out there.
So, it’s been really fun. Do you think the world is headed thatway? And and
well, it feels like at one point in the world way way back, therewas much
more of this connection between all of the body systems. So, yourphysical
health, your mental health, your spiritual health. And people were
thoughtful, yes,about that. And at some point it was like you know the
concept if you’re an athlete that you know no pain no gainand you know get
over rub some dirt on it. So you separate you know physicalpain from your h
how you act and and how that determines your mood and and Ithink what we’re
leading back to is like no everything is connected.Everything’s connected.
Yeah, I think that’s what’s so cool is I came into this space, this
supplementspace, you know, for all sins and purposes, we’re in the supplement
space. It’s been really funny growing Perk aswe grew into wholesale retail.
The first question everyone always asks is, “Wheredo I put you?”
Which has been fun but also challenging.And I’ve loved that we were never in
like a category. Mhm.And in the supplement space, usually you find people
going to two routes as faras marketing, it is either going to solve all your
problems, right? It’s going to solve all your health problems,claims, claims,
claims, claims, claims, or a lot of fear-based, right? If you if you don’t
take this or if you dosomething else, that’s horrible. That’s bad. And we’ve
been neither. I talkabout there’s there’s really good ingredients of course
like I want to give people ways to nourish themselvesbut really the whole
basis of perk and how it started was a feeling. It wasemotional and that’s
what I wanted to give people. I wanted to give people amoment. I wanted to
give people a feeling because that’s what it was for me. Okay. So, did you
need did were you inneed of something at that time? Is that what you’re
saying? I was in desperate need. Can I just add before I want to talkabout
that? Yes. But I would add one more thing to the categories that you describe
which I agree with. I would add one more to thatcategory of we’re going to
maximize your performance. like you know they rightlike if you drink this yes
if you take this then you’re going to either perform like this you’re going
tobe able to do this or you’re going to be able you look like this whatever
it is so it’s a a performance-based Oh yeahkind of supplementation yes and
those are all really all of those things are super meaningful and they are
and there’s a lot of greatthings out there but I I think the problem with
that is then it is stillexternal it is Still, you’re trying to constantly
chase this story,right? This story you have in yourself of I’m going to be
better. I’m going to do better. I’m going to I’m going to achieve more,
right? Likethe world right now is very noisy. Mhm. And I think we’ve become
look at me,look at me, right? Like we we’re all feeling a little lost and our
egos like to feel important. Soit’s like I can I can check off more. I can do
more. I can be bigger. I can befaster. Like, and there’s nothing wrong with
any of the desires or goals, but Ithink we get lost and we lose our own our
own voice.Mhm. And taking a moment kind of going back to that like it when
people are like, “What are you giving people?” Becausethere’s a lot
of warm drinks out there right there. And that’s that was a whole other
story. But coffee culture,coffee and tea culture, it’s world round
worldrenowned like like everywhere has every every place in the world.Yes.
And it’s it is very specific to the region of the world but everybody has
ahot warm drink culture. Yeah. And there’s a reason for that
becausehistorically I think since the world started like right we need that
moment in themorning. Yeah. There’s just like or at night like there’s that
or we have this deep desirefor pause and it’s very um counter to what the
world is tellingus of more more go. Yeah. And I was like but what if I could
give you pause?Mhm. And that I just keep coming back to that over and over
again. Okay. So tell me about that particularpart of your life where you felt
like you needed a moment. you needed a pause and thenhow did that translate
into a product? Yeah. So, um my my husbandMhm. Gary, we’ve been married for
over a decade now and we run perk together.Mhm. Which that’s a very
interesting thing to run a business as husband. Well, we’re going to we’re
going to get into that. So he had almost as a sidejob, he actually too is
also very passionate about health and fitness andthe body and all those
things. He has another aspect to him though that I don’t have and that is
Gary has thispart of him that is the inner soul of a 10-year-old obsessed
with treats.So he’s really good at that creative part. I he comes up with the
flavors andeverything. Yeah. So the flavor part of Perk is all him.The
functional part was was more me. I was like, “Okay, well I want to have
these things in it.” So he had anopportunity to pitch Cabelas. Uhhuh. So
he had worked on projects for othercompanies before, you know, MLMs or other
things, and it was always he helped develop something and thensomebody else
took it and ran with it. So they had an opportunity to pitch Cabelas and
Cabela wanted they werethinking something around the campfire hunting hiking
camping and but an energy drink.Uhhuh. So that’s where he came up with this
idea for perk. It’s just a powder. You mix it in hot water gives you
energy.You could make it at a campfire. So we made a like a big sample batch.
And atthe time I was managing a title company. Mhm. So I had done title and
escrow for two decades, but my my husband, my Matt, whohad been my high
school sweetheart and, you know, father of my kids, he had passed away.
Mhm.And Gary and I were remarried. I I got remarried to to Gary. But grief
doesn’thave a a time frame. You don’t know when it’s going to hit you. It’s
it’s a fluidprocess for your whole life processing grief. So I this was just
afew years after okay Matt had died and my grief took me like deeply took meto
the point where getting out of the bed was just it it was a struggle every
single day.And so he had this that he was waiting to take this meeting with
Cabela’s andhe would make me a mug every morning and he would bring it to me
in bed andit sounds so simple but it was so powerful.It was he wasn’t telling
me you need to get out of bed, you need to do this. Like it wasn’t anything
like that. Itwas just this little moment that said, “Here, you
know.” Mhm. Maybe maybe you try today. And I lookedforward to it. And it
was it was it’s funny because customers have nicknamed us hugging a mug.Mhm.
We didn’t even come up with that. That’s kind of something that organically
happened, but that’s what it was. It waslike this hug and this little like
kick that says you can do this. Even if it’sjust for right now, you can do
this. Okay. That it’s a great story. I love that story and uh and the gesture
Garythe gesture from Gary. So I’m curious like was it the gesture? Was it
thedrink? Was it the uh was it the ingredients? I mean what then spark soso
you Yes. All of a sudden you’re like wait this is I want to share this moment
that I havewith everybody else. Is that the genesis? Okay. because it was I
mean soour first flavor was our chai and if you know chai it’s like cinnamon,
nutmeg,cloves, cardamon like the smell. So it was the whole ritual. So it was
him bringing it to meand in fact I do a lot of like meditation has become
something that’s been very important in my life and oneof the meditations I
offer people the most if they’re like I’m new to meditation like I don’t know
how to do this is the five senses meditation. So,the five senses meditation
is you want something to drink to be able to do it.And first you you sit and
it’s touch.So, it was I’m holding the mug. I’m sitting on my bed like, okay,
I can feellike the blanket on me or I can feel the clothes on my skin, you
know? I can feel the mug in my hand. If I’m outside,maybe there’s a breeze.
So, it’s just like I feel, then it’s okay, I’m going to look around. Okay,
where am I? What’sgoing on right now? You know, it’s it’s look and then it’s
smell. And so thenyou’re smelling and and then it’s listen. And it was like,
okay, is itquiet today? Okay, I can hear Gary out there. He’s helping get the
kids ready for school. Like, you’re just very inthe moment. Mhm. And then
it’s taste. And it is the most powerful simple meditation becauseit doesn’t
matter what’s going on, the stories that are in our head of of ofworry or
grief or anxiety like but you go through those steps and you’re inthat
moment. And that’s the pause that I think we’re all like deeply craving
isjust for a moment. Can I be removed from all of the things I’m thinking
about from before and all the things that areabout to happen? Like, what do I
need to do to just be in this moment for just a minute? And when I had that
eachmorning, that grief is the past and grief is the future I lost. That’sthe
heaviness of grief. But if you can move those away for a minute and sit in
the moment, you know, it’s not as heavy.And so that’s what it gave me. So it
was really all of it. And then it was, okay,it wasn’t packed with sugar. I
feel better and okay, there’s some protein in itbecause, you know, if anyone
has ever dealt with, you know, depression or things like that, your your
hungerwasn’t there. So it was it was feeding me on so many levels. Mso then I
took it in to work because then I wanted to share it with my employees, some
of my clients, and itwas, you know, I’ve told this story quite a few times,
but it really was very like Breaking Bad. Like I hadlittle Ziploc baggies of
powder. I know. And I would bring them in.Yes. Like I know. Meet me. So I
would bring them in and I would go into closings and I would come back andthe
Ziploc baggies would be gone and there just be cash on my desk. Oh, nice. And
then it became this thing like,okay, what have you done? What what is this? I
need more. And and so in the meantime, like other things were goingon in our
our life and we decided, well, really, I decided I was like,we’re doing this
ourselves. So, we never pitched it to him. So, you you’re like, Cabela’s
missedout. Yeah. There was just this emotional connection to it that I
thought like, well, sure,let’s let’s try this. So, and so Gary came up with
the formulation.Yeah, I we tweaked it from a little from the original
formulation he did. Collagen as female that like theresearch I was doing
about my body and stuff, collagen was really important to me. So, I wanted to
add the collagen.Antioxidants have always been there and caffeine has always
been there. I saw on your Instagram something thatsaid studies have shown
that if you eliminate caffeine from your life, doyou know the rest of this?
you can remove 75% of the happiness in your life.Yeah. The way that he
approaches is so funny. Studies have shown Uhhuh. Yes. that if you remove
caffeine Yeah. Yeah.That’s interesting. Well, okay. So, you’re getting some
I’m assuming it wasthe energy what became the energy drink. Okay. So, this is
your morning moment.And I really like that. I you know, we just never take
the time to do that. I wonder how you could change your life oryour outlook
on the day if your morning routine including included 5 minutes ofa
meditation like this with something in your hand and all of those
experiences.In fact, it’s so funny when you were doing that, when you were
describing it, then I’m like, “What am I touching rightnow? Wait, what
am I seeing right now? What am I hearing right now and you’re just walking through
those things and Iswear I could smell some chai when you when you said that.
It really is sopowerful and I knew I wasn’t alone when I would start, you
know, I heard theseresponses from some of my employees and clients and I just
trusted that. Mhm.But going forward, you know, last year we had, for me
personally, I would sayour biggest moment in our whole history of the
business, and that was getting into Costco.Mhm. And the thing that was so
amazing about Costco, first off, it was Costco. It waslike this whole first
circle, full circle, like we were struggling, you know, two full-time single
parents thatmeshed a family and trying to make ends meet. And I think our
kids are made up of 50% Costco pizza. Like,which I completely support. I
People give me a hard time about this all the time, but I’m telling you what,
I love aslice of Costco pizza. I listen, back then it had combo. There was
veggies on it. There was protein.I just want the straight cheese pizza. And
by the way, if you go to Costco, they give you the healthiest slice.Oh, and
we have seven kids between the two of us. Uh-huh. And the oldest is his
daughter, theyoungest is my daughter. All boys in between. And they’re like
same ages. So at that time when we’ve got all theseteenage boys, look, just
just feed them whatever calories you can get them. Just kidding.I fully
support that. Yeah. So Costco was this very powerful moment. But it was the
fact that theyhad a start with road shows and we had the the first road show
in Oram, Utahand we had no idea what to expect. Mhm. Andthe amount of
support. We actually broke records in Costco. We found out on daytwo that
they had put up videos to film the whole day cuz they were like, “Whatis
going on there?” But I had this opportunity for the first time in years
of being behind a screenand working to meet so many people in real life. And
it was person afterperson telling me thank you. Like this changed my whole
day. It was like andthey wanted to tell me where they sat to drink it. They wanted
to tell me what flavor was their flavor. I’m hearingstories of my husband and
I do it together or after my mom died, I went over and I would sit with my
dad in themorning and this was our moment. Like it’s just story after story
like this is my mom fuel. This is what’s kept megoing. I make sure I do this
every morning before I deal with the kids and I’m a better mom. Like it was
all these stories of thismoment that this product had almost given people
permission to take forthemselves. And that was such a just kind ofthis moment
that said yes. This this this feeling, this thought that I had, that was
where we weresupposed to go with it. And it gave people what it gave me. And
it was it was just the most the most amazing, mostrewarding moment. Well, I
just had a thought, but maybe maybe I’ve misread this the whole time.I think
of Perk energy as like this is what I drink in the morning and I getout the
door and I’m ready to go. It’s like energy, but it feels much more now the
story that you’re telling likediving into your life energy, not like
necessarily like the caffeine worksenergy. Sure. There’s so many ways to have
caffeine. Why did this caffeinemake this momentum that it did? Mhm. And you
know, so II’ve been teaching yoga for a long time. It’s my I tell everyone
like whenthey’ll have me come talk to business things or they’ll ask
entrepreneurial questions. I’m like, if your business iseverything, you’re
going to suffer and you’re likeat some point you’re going to break. You need
to have something in your life that is not financially driven,that is not
tied to your business. just like something that’s purely you, whatever it is.
And for me, it wasteaching yoga. That was that gave me that uh giving back
and that personallike it was it wasn’t about being a mom and it wasn’t about
being a wife and it wasn’t about being a CEO. It was just like me and you
know yoga the greatthing and now I help um mentor other yoga teacher in a
yoga teacher training program and the thing that we alwaystell people is if
somebody has a wonderful experience in a yoga classit’s not because you are
an amazing teacher right calm your ego it’s becauseyou created a space for
them to have a great experience that came from um theyfelt they were in a
place where they felt safe and the movements felt good in their body and that
great moment camefrom them. And so that’s kind of how I’ve looked at perk was
okay, what can Igive people that tells them you have permission. I’m like you
get to giveyourself permission to take a moment and then go out and get it.
You’re you feelgreat. You’re ready. Then go do whatever you need to do in
your life. But this is going to say, “Okay, you havepermission.”
Because that’s the other thing. There’s a lot of health products, right?And
we’re we’re getting told everywhere all the health things we need to do. At
the end of the day, if it doesn’t tastegood, it’s just not going to work.
We’re not going to stick with it. It So,that’s why my husband’s so brilliant.
Again, like I tell people, he there’s part of his soul that is like this
inner10-year-old obsessed with treats. Mhm. And so that’s always the thing
that people are like shocked. They’re like,”Oh, it actually tastes like
what it says it does.” And I’m like, “Yeah, cuz this guy, he is
relentless. It is notdoesn’t pass the ready on any flavor until it literally
tastes just like it.”Just I had this horrible thought while you were
saying that. I thought of you doingyour five steps, all the senses in the
morning and you get to the taste andit’s like because it’s so terrible and
the whole moment’s and then it’s gone.So taste is critical. I I like to try
all the stuff. I mean, I like to see Ilike to just dabble in all the stuff
and see what feels good and see find out what doesn’t. And there is a bag
ofsomething sitting on my desk right now that’s supposed to be like really
good for me and I should be doing it on adaily basis and I can’t choke it
down. I try and I try and it’s probably reallyreally good for me. I read all
of the ingredients and I know it’s sciencebased and it’s a great company and
I was likeI can’t drink it. What if what if we can do all of it because life
is too short. Oh, no kidding.To to be miserable. Yeah. Especially when you’re
eating something. Yes. When you’re tasting something, you know,I really I I
wanted to talk about those senses. Yeah. A little bit more because it’s
it’ssuper powerful. I have experiences. I’m sure you do, too. I’m sure
everybody does. Uh, I can besomewhere out completely out of sight of my home
in a completely different area and if I smell something similar,all of a
sudden I have a memory of some event associated with that thing. Samesame
thing with a song. I can hear a song all the way across the world and
I’mright back where I was on my mountain bike going up the hill listening to
this thing. It’s so powerful. So, I’ll tell you astory about that. We have we
do holiday flavors. We do seasonal. We do summer. Imean, we have so many
flavors that like I like it’s actually been one of that’s been one of our
fights as a husband andwife is I have to market them and do all those things.
And so, I’ve told himstop. There’s too many flavors. No more flavors. And it
hurts his heartdeeply. So, we have to find the list he keeps on his phone is
iscrazy of all the flavors. But, so we have all these crazy flavors. Mhm.Our
number one selling flavor is Dutch hot cocoa. That’s what I have in my mug.
Dutch hotcocoa. It’s our number one. And it was so interesting because when
like we startedwe saw the sales like it was happening and and Costco even
when we had our first meeting with them they’re likeokay what’s your number
one seller and we’re like okay well what what time of year is it like who’s
shared about itlike it it can vary. I mean we we knew kind of what the top
ones were and they said okay well when you come to thisroad show we want we
want like four and whatever wins is what we’ll carry. Andthe Dutch just
destroyed the other flavors. And so I was really curious. Soas I’m watching
people fill their carts, I’m like, “Tell me about Dutch for you.”
And it’s that it is I feel like I’m alittle kid again. Oh, it makes me so
happy. It makes me feel like a little kid again. They’re like,”There’s
no way I’m going to sit down and drink a cup of hot chocolate and with all
the sugar and all the thingsand I it’s not going to make me feel good and I
know it’s not good for me and but I still want to have my caffeine inthe
morning.” They’re like, I have a moment where I’m like, I can be a
little kid. And I was like, I that’s it. That’sit. It was that connection.
Does Dutch Dutch hot chocolate also comes in chill?Uh-huh. and a
caffeine-free for the people that are like, I I just had arough day and I
don’t want to have caffeine and I want to drink it at 3:00 and I’m like, go,
here you go. It’s allvariations now because it is our number one cuz it it
does it creates thatfeeling of like I’m a little kid coming in on a cold day
and I tell my mom Ijust need some hot chocolate. you what I really so this is
the for me this is the perfect time of year for for the chillproduct the
night because yeah because uh you want somethingbut as you get to be my age
like you can’t have all that you can’t have a hotchocolate no if I have sugar
and crap that late at night I’m Yeah I’m wrecked my sleep’swrecked like Yeah.
Yeah. But this is like the perfect It’s hot. It’s warm. It smells good.
Ittastes great. Uh, and it has ingredients that help is actually like one of
my favoriteproducts that we’ve done. I mean, yeah, we love Caffeine is going
to forever win. Like, we love starting a day, butchill was something that I
really wanted because I’m I am a treat girl at night.Like, I just I have I
know a treat at night is such a big deal for me. Hey, I tell people I usedto
tell people I had a horrible sweet tooth, but then I started reading this
book on being mindful or mindset andmindfulness and and so now I tell
everyone I have an amazing sweet tooth. Right. Yes. It’s not terrible. It’s
amazing.Fantastic. But it’s very hard to control. So that’s exactly right.
You can have this and it is a treat. Itfeels like a treat. And there was a
lot of like sleep drinks out there, but you know, the research started coming
out about, hey, do nottake melatonin every night. like don’t mess up your
hormones and and so I was like what what do we need? And melatoninwas really
about making you be sleepy, right? Tired. That’s actually not our issue.
We’retired. Our issue is this or you know muscle aches or you know asyou get
older. So I was like okay. So you know my husband again he’s so good and he’s
researching me to things and he’s like okay well what about this? AndI’m like
okay what about this? So, it was magnesium. Mhm. So good for your body, for
muscles, forrelaxation. And then this amino acid called glycine, which
they’ve actually studied forthings like OCD, anxiety, racing thoughts. And
I’m like,well, listen, I I don’t know about you, but that’s my issue. I have
all those things. I’m tired, but I’m like, I want toreward myself. I want to
We want to treat ourselves and tell ourselves like it’s okay. This it’s self
soothing. Mhm.Here, you deserve this. You did hard things. You can have a
treat. But then the amino acid, that glycinehelps calm your mind. And then
you just And it’s got the collagen and the protein and and thewithout the
sugar and you just go to sleep. Yeah. I know. And people are like, “You
don’t talk about it much on social.” I’m allThat’s cuz when I’m drinking
it, I’m done with the world. You’re like,I want to see that clip where Right.
I just Well, does it also help with Have youdone any research? Do you have
you heard any stories about like my big issue sleeping? Man, I used to be the
greatestsleeper in the world and then I became an adult. Oh yeah. Yes. And
now I’m the worst sleeper in theworld and it’s mostly at 3:00 in the morning.
I’m like, oh yeah,wide awake. Like what in the world? Yeah. And I think
that’s what it is likethese racing thoughts, lack of being calm. And so all
of these things can be helpful.Oh yeah. Well, and that’s why we wanted to put
the the brain support in our hydrationbecause I drink that in my water bottle
all day. Mhm. And then I actually drink. I’vebeen trying to tell more of my
my female friends and you know the whole hormoneschanging in this time of
life for all of us is we it’s our cortisol levels andwe’re we’re stimulating
so fast getting that caffeine in us so fast. But a lot of times when we wake
up in the morningand we kind of feel groggy and a little brain fog we’re
actually dehydrated.So I will drink the hydration, get that theanine and
cognizin and all of the electrolytes in my brain firstand then you know an
hour or so later then I’ll have my perk. Gotcha. Yeah. So it’s not when you
wake up likefeeling like that like when your first thought is man I need a
nap that’s terrible and but you you shouldn’tnecessarily reach for caffeine.
Right. Right. You want to get hydrated first. give your brain that support
andand that helps us balance our cortisol levels which then helps that sleep
cycle at night so you’re notdoing the 3 am like so all these things they
layer on top of each other and then it’s also you know you startyour day well
then you are more likely to do a workout in the morning or go for a walk and
then you do the chill atnight and you’re more likely to have a healthy
bedtime routine and do those things that take care of yourself likeit’s all
this it’s this reminder that tells you you have permission to take care of
yourself.Yeah, you can do that. I love the alignment with the product because
anytime you see I mean, you’reright. It’s when you see energy on a on a label
or where it sits in the market,you’re you might have a misperception of like,
oh, this is really going to get me going. But I feel like the way thatyou’re
describing the product is your life. Like I said earlier, your life energy is
what you’rehelping to supplement. Well, and how cool this day and age of
social media where you can just sharethese things to an audience cuz if
people just saw us in a store again, the poor stores are like, I don’t know
where to put you.I’m going to put it there’s some even Costco chips here.
Each each store manager has put ussomething different somewhere different
even in Costco. Like it’s so interesting. Some have us buy protein,some have
us buy coffee, some have us buy hot chocolate, some have us buy collagen. I
think Harmon’s does a really nice jobof product placement for Perk. We love
Harmon’s. Harmons was our veryfirst Oh, like big retail and Harmons has been
areally great partner and a fun way to show how we can work in retail, where
wecan be in the store and show other stores. So yeah, Harmon’s was
perfecttiming, too. Mhm. We finally got in the stores in Harmon’sin early
late spring, early summer of 2020. So remember, what was the onlything that
was open then? Grocery stores. Grocery stores. Yeah. And but you could only
walk down the aislesone way, right? But it but for the people that are like,
I’m going to go out and go somewhere.The grocery stores were they were
happening. Absolutely. Yeah. So, it was really fun to the timing of of
Harmon.Yeah. I think they do a really I think they do a great job. Yeah.
Fantastic job. I am thinking about your Okay. We youhad this period where you
were you had grief. You were managing grief and Garywas bringing you a cup
every morning. But it sounds like maybe you’re past that. Is Gary not
bringing you a cup every morninganymore? Like what’s going on? Gary still
brings me my cup everymorning. for over 10 years now every morning.Do we call
him St. Gary? He is St. Gary in he’s he’s not Mr. F. He’s St. Garyin so many
ways that uh there’s not really words to describe ummarrying a widow is a
very it’s a very different situation. Mhm.Um like even even when we were
first dating, you know, my heart goes out toanyone that is trying to navigate
the waters of uh single parenting and then dating.Like it’s it’s a very messy
thing. But you know, people share their stories andkind of like, okay, well,
here’s how I got here. And you know, I was really honest with him right off
the bat. Iwant to say second date like explaining like I’m still activelyin
love with somebody else, you know? I was like, I’m going to scare off anyone.
Just letting you know. Imean, he was he was very persistent. So, I was like,
okay, I’m going to let you know. Like, here’s what you’re wanting.I said, I’m
still actively in love with someone else. And he says, I I know. And he
hasallowed not only me but my kids to grieve however we need to grieve.Mhm.
And to celebrate however we need to celebrate. You know that’s talking
aboutdad. Like we still throw a birthday party for him every year on his
birthday. Gary’s a part of the birthdayparty. Like it’s it takes a really
special person who really understands love to be able to dothat. Well, I
think Gary, the little that I know about him, also has a significant life
experience. And maybethat all of that training led him to this point. I don’t
know, but it seems like alike, you know, one of those matches that you kind
of put down on favors like if I could have all of these things, Ithis is what
I want. Oh, and and I did. Like there was a little conversation I hadwith God
that was like, “Listen, I’m not doing this. I’m not I’m not
dating.Getting married again just was nowhere on my radar at all.” I
mean, this Okay, so when you’retalking Yes. This is fascinating. When you’re
talking about having conversations with GodYes. And are is this your
conversation? like listen I this is I’m not doing this likethis is not for me
anymore and I’m not I my kind of a prayer formatI think that our relationship
with God divine howeveryou have it invest in it it’s and it’s very very
personalbut yeah mine has been like that it’s very conversational and it’s
very likeyou know me better than anyone else. You know what’s going on. You
know this person I love better than anyone else.Like it’s been very
conversational and I’m I’m always very open about the fact that I’ll admit I
know I am a pain. I amsuch a pain to deal with. But I’m just going to be
honest like here’s how I’m feeling. This is what’s going on. Butyeah, I I
laid it out and I was like if I’m He listen he has to not want to havekids
because I that ship has sailed. like I’m done and he needs to accept all
these things and he needs to not beanything like Matt because that’s going to
mess with my head. Like it was all this list andand I I remember sharing this
with girlfriends and I was like listen this is what I’ve already told Godand
and I’ve I’ve got a best friend who’s known me forever and she’s like watch
outgood luck. No, she was like it’ll happen. And she goes, “Oh,
no.” She go, “Don’t you challenge God likethat.” And Yeah. It
was like, “Here you go.”Yeah. And there was no way I could say no
to him. So, here’s the package. You’re like, “Okay, now what?”Yeah.
Now, what are you going to do? You know, do you do you know uh Jordan
Peterson? Jordan. Okay. He I think he’s fantasticand I think he’s brilliant
and he has a series that he’s done and he just he just went on tour uh a
series called WeWho Wrestle with God. Yeah. I went and watched it. You did?
Yes. I just think that is such a a meaningfulway to describe how you can have
a relationship with God. I don’t think that’s antagonistic. No.At all. But it
feels like that was kind of maybe what you were going through. Like