Leadership Isn’t Loud: Jim Herrmann on Trust and Discipline

Steve’s got great stories of him of just being principled and uh
and a leader
like just a leader not so much yelling, screaming and profanity and trying
but
just led with um character and toughness and you know again going back to
our
freshman year. I mean those to have people on your team that are like that
th that’s invaluable.
Welcome to the Know Your Ship podcast presented by E-Hub. I’m your host,
Frank Dolce.
The one and only Jim Herman. Was your nickname in college the Herminator?
And why not?
Uh, it grew into that. It did. Yeah. Yeah. It started as just good old
Herm. Just Herm.
Herm. And then it was Mhm. um the Herminator and then it was Nater
and then it was it’s variations. I’m just going to say one thing before we
get started. Um do it or maybe we have
we’re starting these seats and maybe it’s cuz I’m tall. Uhhuh. But I feel
like I’m doing just an ab
workout right now. I do too. It’s like I know. I feel like it too. Does it
look like we’re doing that?
Cuz I feel like if I went like this, I’m gone. I know. I feel like the same
thing. And
I think that the chairs are really like if you set the chairs here. Yeah.
If
you’re staging a home. Yeah. This is a chair that you want in there. But if
you want people to come over and stay, this is not maybe if you want
people to come over and leave. Workout. It is. I feel very much the same
way.
But you’re a guy who likes to work out. You work out hard. Is this is that
work ethic something you developed in your
childhood? Oh man, Frank, I wish so bad I could tell you as a kid growing
up in stories about this in Wisconsin.
Yes. I mean, my we were middle class. At least it felt that way. Which
part
of of Wisconsin? Oh, between Milwaukee and Madison, kind of the far we were
out in the country. We I grew up on 20 acres, an old
farmhouse, 160 old farmhouse, old working farm. We kept, you know, there
were 30 left of the original whatever
500. and um grew up around a lot of dairy farms, but in a very nice
affluent
area of southeastern Wisconsin where people with wealth from Chicago and
Milwaukee had summer homes out on the
lakes. Um we weren’t one of those people, but we had everything we wanted.
And I but I
also felt like we were, you know, my parents were making it a go and
working hard. My mom was a teacher, my dad um I
went to my dad’s college graduation. and my his parents were German
immigrants. My dad grew up on a big corporate dairy
farm. Um and so yeah, we learned to work like we got up and we sounds
crazy, but
you know, we cut 15 acres of grass every Saturday and cut down a lot of
trees and
picked up a lot of branches and painted an old farmhouse and kept the barn
going and all those types of things, right?
So, it wasn’t like I was out milking cows, but yeah, I mean, we were we
were taught to work hard. Um, and so
it’s weird in sports. I I um I was insecure. I was young for my class. I
was the tallest guy in my class, even as a four-year-old when everyone was
five and I was five and they were six and I
was seven and they were eight. I was always usually the tallest and the
fastest. And um I wasn’t the strongest,
but back then it was all about speed and kickball and running around and
doing all that stuff. So
I kind of fit in that way, but emotionally I felt insecure. I just felt
like people are better than I am. People
are bigger and more talented. Um, and so
I always felt internally like I was a pretty good athlete, but I was afraid
to really kind
of act on that. I had a couple coaches that believed in me early and um
would bring me up
when I was a sophomore. I’m thinking, am I going to make the basketball
team? I make the sophomore JV basketball team.
The varsity basketball coach comes to my house one fall afternoon and says,
“Hey, can I talk to your mom and dad?” I’m
like, “Yeah, what are you doing here?” And he’s like,
“You’re going to come play varsity.” I’m like, “Vy? How am I
going to play varsity? I don’t know if
I’m going to make the JV team.” And he’s like, “You’re tall,
you’re fast, you’re athletic, you’re like, no, you’re coming
and uh we’re going to teach you.” And so he brought me up, but my
skill level from a basketball standpoint was there
from a hustle, rebounding, passing, all like, you know, I I was afraid to
shoot
because I didn’t want to miss and get pulled, right? So I it was always
kind of that weird paradox. But that same
coach was also a uh assistant football coach as often is the
case in high school. And I remember my junior year, we were in a we’re in
a
Oklahoma drill and it’s not like I was dominating people physically, but I
remember him pulling me aside and said,
“Hey, look, you know, you you you’re going to do this. You’re going to
be really good at this.” And I’m like, “Really?” He goes,
“Yeah, you’re going
to you’re going to you’re going to be the first person from our high school
to get a D1 scholarship.” And I’m like, “All right, that sounds
really good.”
Um, thanks. I mean, obviously, I said something else, but internally that’s
what I was internalizing. And sure
enough, I was the first kid from my high school to get a D1 scholarship.
Um, I don’t know really how I I as a senior, I
played tight end, I played linebacker, I was a kicker, I was a punter. I
think I was all conference punter and kicker and
that was it. I was an all-conference linebacker. I was an all-conference
tight end, but I was the only kid
getting recruited. Um, Wisconsin recruited me. Northwestern Minnesota.
There was a coach in Minnesota who got
hired to BYU. His name was Roger French. He was an O line coach. He was
recruiting me to Minnesota. So he said, “Hey, I’m going to this place
out west.
I’m going to keep recruiting you if that’s cool.” I’m like,
“Yeah, sure. Sounds great.” And then um yeah, and Northwestern,
my
mom was a Northwestern grad. Um Wisconsin was close to home, but none of
those teams were very good, right?
They they really bottom of the Big 10 was preberry Alvarez at Wisconsin.
Gotcha. Northwestern was like 0 and 30 a lot.
Pre for three years. But but it was also a great school. My mom graduated
from there was close to home, right? So those were kind of all
the allures. But anyhow, in a weird roundabout way, I ended up committing
to BYU. And what was the roundabout way? Like
I went to I went to high school. You’re Midwest. I went to high school on
signing day and
I’m walking through the library on my way to my locker and Coach French is
sitting at a table in my library, our
library at high school. I’m like, “Hey.” He’s like,
“Hey.” I’m like, he’s today’s signing day. I’m like, “Yeah,
that’s
right. Yeah, I know. Kind of.” Yeah, that is. He’s like, “Well,
let’s get this done. I’m here. Let’s go.” flew all
the way in from Utah. We want you, you know, we want you. Let’s sign this
thing. And I’m like, okay.
Did you had you consulted either Wisconsin or BYU? Wisconsin or BYU? Yeah.
Yeah, it’s Wisconsin. Um, you’re a
Badger. Yeah, I’m a Badger, but they they don’t win and and they want me
and they
offered me, but BYU felt like they really wanted me, right? Like I didn’t
feel like Wisconsin didn’t really want
me, but they wanted me, right? It was like I went on the in-state
recruiting trip with all the big recruits. They
offered me like it was cool throughout this throughout the process. They
kind of like, “Hey, look, are you committing
to us?” And I’m like, “I don’t really know what that means.”
But yeah. Um, my
parents were like so chill. They didn’t It’s just different. It was
different. I’m telling you, I grew up. So, you you literally went to school
signing day. I went to school signing day and I signed with just some kind
of idea like, “Oh, yeah. It’s signing day.” It’s Wisconsin.
Yeah.
But you knew that. Okay. So you knew that much? Yeah. I was like not going
to go to Minnesota. I was not going to go to Northwestern. Right. Okay.
And so it was kind of like if I go I’m going to go to Wisconsin or BYU. And
your parents were like, “Hey,
hey, what do you think you’re going to do?” I’m like, “Mom, I’m
17. I barely know how to drive
and I don’t really believe in myself.” Coach Mlan came uh at the end
of the school day and got me out of my last
class and he’s like, “Hey, excited to have you be a Badger.” I’m
like, “You know what? I I signed with BYU this morning.” He’s like,
“Oh,
okay. Well, good luck.” You know, it was like one of those things. And
then, um, we played Wisconsin my freshman year,
and we beat him 23 to three or something like that, um, at Camp Randall,
which was awesome to go back. Um, and you know, it’s changed my life
like
for the better. I can’t even tell you. We won the national championship. my
best friend and roommate, Lee Johnson,
Steve Young. I mean, one of them’s in the Hall of Fame. The other guy
played 19 years. They’re in my wedding. We’re best friends to this day. I
talk to them
daily. I work with Steve. I’m I’m a sign, you know, I’m a business
development officer and a significant middle market private equity firm
that he’s, you know, the chairman of the
board and and a founding member of. And I started a business. He was on my
board. He I I mean I all sorts of
different ways that we are intertwined. And I talked to some of my friends
from the recruiting class that went to
Wisconsin, which was I think they finally made it to a bowl game, maybe my
junior year, maybe my senior. There were
a couple kids on my recruiting class that I played in the East West Shrine
game, which used to be a big college all-star game. Still is, not as big
as
it was. Um and then the Japan Bowl, I played with, you know, a bunch of
them, and
they’re like, “Hey, and man, you know, geez, it worked out for
you.” you and I’m like, you know, it really did really did work out for
me. And and you know,
it obviously worked out for them individually. They were at these college
all-star games as well, but from a team standpoint. Wisconsin didn’t do
anything
crazy and we were always ranked in the top five. I felt, you know, it is
what your is your world is where you where
you live and and what your experience and your perception and right, we
were in the top five every year. And I felt
like I was at this crazy program that was just like this meteor up and to
the right. Um, it felt then we got Donnie
and Marie up the road for crying out loud. We got we got we got their
studios where it’s literally I know it sounds
crazy but we got every freaking celebrity in the world is coming to Provo,
Utah
in the 80s to be on the Donnie show. I mean it was huge at the time. You
forget it was top five. I mean and I’m
and I’m being so crazy. I’m not I’m being serious in a way like it wasn’t
about the Donnie and Marie show. was about like all things kind of
Provo Utah and Utah were rising, right?
Danny A going to the Sweet 16 coast to coast against Notre Dame. I grew up
a huge Notre Dame fan, right? We’re
beating, we went back and we beat Wisconsin. We’re beating SMU. We’re
beating, we’re going to Georgia toeto
toe when they’re ranked number one and we lose 1714 on the last second
field goal. We have six turnovers and we still
almost pull that win off. We go to UCLA, we play in the Rose Bowl, we we
beat UCLA, we we go toe-to-toe with UCLA in
another one and beat him. And it’s still I think it’s still one of the ESPN
classics. I still have people calling me, “Dude, I’m watching you on TV
at
ESPN Classic.” It’s UCLA. It was like 45 46 Steve Bono and Steve Young
duking it
out, throwing touchdowns all over the place, Don Rogers and all these
all-Americans that So it was like Yeah.
And it opened me up to a whole new world of Utah and the West and Sunshine.
And then you’re still here. and I’m still
here. So, so yeah, it was it was monumental. The most pivotal decision in
your life.
Yeah. Is that it? And did you even make a decision? Like I think there’s so
many interesting
things. One, it sounds like you just kind of had a feeling like that’s I
think maybe that’s where I go.
It’s really weird. Um I I don’t know if you remember in what your coaches
refer
to a scholarship as, but it was called a grant and aid. A grant in aid.
Grant aid. And I so remember sitting in
in coach Edward’s office after the Sunday morning I’m about to leave fly
back to Wisconsin. It was my first co
was my first recruiting trip and uh he said, “Well, we’ve got a full
grant and
aid for you.” And I’m like, “Grant and aid? What is that? Grant aid?
So you’re going to grant me
money to aid me?” I don’t really Where’s the word scholarship? I don’t
hear that
word for I don’t hear that word. And um so I got home and my mom’s like,
“How’d it go?” I’m like, I I think good. They
have a grant and aid for me. I’m not sure if that’s the same thing as a
scholarship. Like we were my my mom’s an educator and
was really involved in my life, but also very they weren’t pushy. My dad’s
an old
farmer, right? He was and played baseball. And my dad was just kind and
gentle and supportive, but no one was like, “Where are you going to
go? This is really it’s it’s look now my brother
who came five years later he was a top 50 recruit in the country street and
Smith’s top 50 recruit had
you know 40 scholarship offers it was but even then even then with him they
were pretty relaxed my dad really wanted
him to go to Notre Dame we grew up huge Notre Dame fans he ended up going
to Michigan we played Michigan my senior
year in the bowl game that was my brother’s senior year in high school we
beat Michigan that’s the year we won
the national championship and he’s on you know, where’s he going to go? Did
I ever think he was coming to BYU? No.
I thought he’d stay in the Midwest because I saw how hard it was on my mom
and dad. To not be able to just drive two hours
down the road and watch me play. So, I’m thinking, yeah, my brother’s going
to stick around the Midwest somewhere, Nebraska or Notre Dame or, you
know,
Ohio State or Michigan. He went to Michigan. And so, yeah. And even through
that, my parents were very supportive,
but relaxed. Really very interesting. It’s It’s a lot different these days.
Much different. I mean by by
you show up on you you being recruited today, you probably walk into the
library, you have four hats sitting in
front of you and Okay, so that is interesting to me is that you the way
that it was managed by your parents and it was really up to you
and you kind of had to make this decision. Absolutely. That’s great
parenting. The other thing is and I mean that sincerely like yeah
and and the other thing is coach French showed up like how how meaningful
is that and how do you incorporate that in
your own life? That was that was part of it, right? He came to my
basketball games. Yeah. He came to my track, you know, he all
that stuff. And so I’m like, Bo really wants me. Like I could feel that.
And Wisconsin wanted me and Northwestern
really wanted me, but I was like, ah man, they haven’t won a game in three
years. You know, what’s that going to be like
mentally? You know, it’s great that it’s an hour down the road and it’s in
Chicago and it’s Northwestern. It’s a great degree and my mom’s my mom’s
an
alumni. Those are all cool, but man, not winning a game in three years is
rough. And um Minnesota just was like, eh, I
just really didn’t have a desire to go be a Gopher. We were Badgers and we
bordering states and just wasn’t
anything that was moving the needle for me. Yeah. Um and so yeah, it was
really kind of those schools and
yeah, I just felt like they never wavered, just were all in on me. Um
and
that was there was some comfort to that. So there was no question when he
was there. I’m like, “Wow.” Had he not shown up,
oh, if he didn’t show up that day, are you at Wisconsin? What’s really
weird is I don’t even know
how it would have happened. I mean, like I I you know what I’m saying? Like
even then, even like Coach Mlan, who was the
head coach of Wisconsin at the time, I mean, it’s signing day, you know,
and they had called me all week and hey, how
you thinking? What are you thinking? And and I’m like, I’m just thinking
and talking to my parents and
and so yeah, they just it’s was different. There’s no question. I mean,
yeah. Um, and then since then, my high
school, um, unbeknownst to me, I mean, it was like the sleeping giant. My
my high school since then’s won, I think,
has been to the state championship game more than any other team in the
history of Wiscon.
So, it’s the it’s the it’s the program that Jim built. Well, no, but I was
definitely No, no, no. You were the start. I was definitely
the first person to ever, you know, and then my brother was number two and
then since then there’s been
House of Herman 40. By the way, 40 D1. Yeah.
You spell your name kind of funny. Like very like every time I put I try to
put Yeah.
I’m putting It’s like H E R. I I’m like is it two Rs or is it two M’s?
It’s both. And then there’s two N’s. Double it up. H E R. M A N. Yeah.
You
know, it’s interesting. Yeah. Um, there’s a guy here. I’m I apologize. I
can’t think of his name right now.
He works for the Utah uh international business department. I don’t want
to
have the wrong name, but I have the wrong name, but um I met him at
Silicon Slopes, I think. And he said his name and I heard his accent. I’m
like, “Fellow German, Jim
Herman.” He goes, “How do you spell your name?” And I told
him, “H E- R.” He’s like, “Oh my gosh.” And he made me
feel
like I was the chancellor of Germany. Like he he
just went off. He’s like, “Dude, do you know your name? Do you know
what your name is?” No. And I’m like, “No, I don’t. I’m going to
send you.” And he sent me all these emails about my name. He told me
about there was a statute of some guy named
Herman spelled the way I am in some town. And he just made me feel like a
million bucks. You’re royalty. You’re
German royalty about that. But he made me feel great and and he told me a
little bit and he sent me this whole
background about my name in German and what it meant. And look, my my
grandparents, like I said, were German
immigrants. Came from the Black Forest region. Really? Yeah. That’s what
we’re going to name this podcast, by the way.
The Herminator. Oh, the Herminator is good. Or Herm. I liked Herm, too. Or
Nater. No, we’re
going to call it a conversation with German royalty. It’s one one day. It’s
one day. Uh, I
was living with Steve. I got done playing. I had screwed my knee up on
campus or you’re done playing pro.
Done playing in the NFL. Had a couple knee surgeries. Yeah. Signed a deal
with the RA the Raiders and failed my physical
and um and so I go I’m like what am I going to do? Um my wife who was my
girlfriend at the time, we were up and down and all around. I’m like am I
responsible enough to get married? How am I going to support
I’m going to say no hardness? I couldn’t agree more. She was fully like I
could care less but I’m like I
need to be responsible. She’s like, “We’ll figure it out.” But
anyhow, so I was kind of trying, you know, trying to figure out my life. And
so I go out and
um I’m living with Steve and um what were we talking? I lost my train of
thought. You had just had some knee surgeries. You you finished the NFL.
You were living with Steve. You were trying to
decide what to do and get married. Yeah. All of that. Dang it. I was going
to say I had a
great story. Your testosterone levels are high. Testosterone messed with my
brain. But maybe prevagen. Maybe we should add
that to the regimen. Say that. That’s a little nerve-wrack. That’s a little
nervous. Okay. You’re going to remember what And when you do, oh, we were
going to this
event in this city. You were talking about my name, Herm. Yeah. My my my
nickname. Everyone calls me
Herm. Herm. I work at a top tier middle market private equity firm. Yeah.
Right. We are buttoned up. We do
things. We’re going to talk about that, too. I’m not I’m not going to
disregard that. By the way, HGC,
everyone calls me HERM. At the at the fund. At the fund. At the firm. that
they call you Herm. Are you still the biggest guy
there? Like the tallest guy? I’m the tallest. Yes. Yes, I am. Okay. But
anyhow, we go to this event in the
city. We lived down, you know, if anyone knows the Niners and what they’re
all about, their practice facilities down in
Santa Clara. There were stadiums there at the time. They were playing at
the Stick, but so a lot of guys live down the peninsula and then the the
facilities at
Santa Clara and and the Candlestick was where the game was. Where one night
they had they
had a big event in the city. Steve was invited to it. It was a big I think
it was a breast cancer like fundraiser. It
was a fashion show with Macy’s and big shindig downtown and they invited
a
bunch of the ners. And so Steve’s like, “Hey, come on. We’re going downtown
to this this cool event tonight.” I’m like,
“Cool.” So he’s like, “They’re sending a limo for us.”
We hop in the limo. We go by and we pick up Ronnie Lot and Ricky
Ellison. Did you just say Ronnie Lot? I said Ronnie Lot. So Ronnie Lot.
Ronnie Lot.
He’s my top five of all time. He’s an not only is he in a a bad a player,
but
he’s a great great guy. And so we’re we’re driving to the city and we’re
talking and I met Ronnie a couple times
at the facility and Ricky like with Steve, hey, hi, how you doing? But
nothing crazy. And so, you know, we’re
spending an hour in the limo driving from Palo Alto to downtown San
Francisco and um we’re talking and Steve’s like,
you know, Herm Herm tell and Herm and I were, you know, we’re just talking
and so we go to the event and afterwards we
go get some food. And so Ronnie Lot’s like, so hey Herb, um, you know,
so
Herb, are you from? And so I’m like, this is Ronnie Lot calling me Herb
and which is fine. It’s a fine name for anyone named Herb out there, but
I’m like, my name is not Herb. My name is
Jim Herman. And I’m thinking, I need to correct Lonnie L. I can’t tell you
how much I love
Steve’s not correcting him. So, I’m like, all right, here he goes. I’m
going to correct L. Not sure if he’s going to
knock me out. No, you just get a new nickname. Okay, here we go. Um,
my name is Jim Herman. He’s like, “Why is Steve calling you Herb
in the limo all night?” I’m like, “He’s calling me Herm.”
It’s like, “Ah, that makes sense.” So then the rest of the
night he called me Herm. But yeah, for like for an hour I got Ronnie L and
Ricky Austin.
I’m calling you Herb from now on. Peaches and Herb. Herb. Yeah. Yeah. So
you you can kind of look like a herb.
That was That was the That’s such a good Hey, is it true about Ronnie
Lot?
Yeah. Just cut it off. Oh, man. We’re at dinner and I’m like, whoa. Like
I’m watching him eat pizza
with four and a half fingers, you know. Okay. So, everybody knows that
story. I’m assuming it’s not.
He He broke his finger really really badly. Couldn’t get it. And then they
said, “Well, you’re going to have to play with the cast or you can’t
play.”
And he was like, “Cut it off.” Yeah. And they did. And they said,
“What?” It’s It’s kind of like right that a
little past that first knuckle. Yeah. Cuz you know, cutting above the
knuckle, what are you going to What’s that
knuckle going to do? Nothing. So they got you got below the first knuckle.
So it’s it’s kind of a half a
it’s a half a little over I would say it’s not technically 3/4 nor a
half.
Then that ended that effectively ended great fractions. So whatever that is
fractionally that’s what he’s got
like a 2/3 of a of a pinky left. He can’t play piano anymore. No. No he
can’t
can’t hit the the low notes. Probably a bunch of things right now.
Saxophone might be out. What else? Clarinet. There’s a few things. Flute.
um piano. I think all of those things. I think you’re right. But yeah, um amazing
human being and one
of the all-time alltime oh um greats that play play that play that
game. Ronnie Lot. I mean nobody nobody played that position like R. I mean
I guess who
who would be another guy? Kenny Kenny. Wow. Isn’t that weird? At the same
time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kenny Easley probably precursor
Jack Tatum. Some of those guys. Yeah. Raiders. Yeah. Just embodied
toughness.
Tough. And like not just toughness, but um he really respected the game of
being
tough. And not being dirty, but playing pushing every limit you can
of toughness without being dirty. Steve’s got great stories of him of just
being principled
and uh and a leader like just a leader not so much yelling, screaming
and
profanity and trying but just led with um character and toughness and you
know
again going back to our freshman year. I mean those to have people on your
team that are like that that’s invaluable. I
mean, it just mean I’ve used the word permeate a few times, but it just
permeates the team. It drips down. It it
it trickles down through kind of the nooks and crannies, and people’s try
to
emulate that. Yeah. I have a I have a few questions based on all the stuff
we just talked
about. Yes. So, it might not be it might not sound like it’s flowing, but
these are all the things that have popped into my head.
One is I have to go back. You did signing day and then what how much did BYU
pay you when you were there? big. It
was big. Still living off that. It’s interest cash cash on cash. Um yeah,
it’s fascinating how it’s changed.
A It’s um Is it ridicul Wait, is it ridiculous what’s happening right now?
Ridiculous. And And I will say I will
say this. Um I have um I think I’m really a pragmatic person. I
I can be certainly emotional and all those types of things. I did go to law
school. Teaches you to uh teach to think
critically. Um, I think I’ve always kind of been that type of person. Did
you Libra? I’m a Libra. So, scales. I’m
always kind of balancing. Oh, did you go to law school at I went to SC law
school at BYU, but not with
Stephen and I graduated together. Oh, you did? Okay. Everybody knows. Do
you want a semester at a time? Yeah.
I did three years at a time. It just so happened that my third year
coincided with his last semester. So,
we would go we we got to go three semesters together. Yeah. Um, I went
three years in a row and then our last semester of my third
year and the last semester of his basically six semesters in a row, which
is really mind-blowing what he did. Um,
we graduated together. Gotcha. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. What were we
talking about? We were I know. I’m sorry. This is I do
this all the time. I I do I go off on these tangents and then I get every
everybody gets
critical thinking. Yeah. I get everyone off track. That’s my critical thinking.
So, we were I had
these questions. We were talking about we were talking about the
ridiculousness of college athletes. Yeah. So, look, as time as I used to
be
like absolutely not this is going to ruin it. Don’t pay anyone a dime. Yes.
Do not do this. What? You were going to
open up a can of worms and and I I go to this gym and we we’re we’re
going to start a not a podcast, but we’re going to start a reality show
there. just kind of mic us up because
it’s fascinating and we talk about all the time. We we got some really
varied opinions and it’s
fun and we lift and we work out and we solve the world problems. But I I’ve
been way before it started.
I’m like preemptively pay them. Like right now, don’t let it go any
further.
Cough up and say every kid in America at a D1 program is going to get 30
grand a
semester. Just pick a number. Pick a number. 20 grand, 25. Because if
not,
what’s going to happen is what’s happened. And I think if they would have
beat them to the punch and said, you
know what, this isn’t going to go away. Let’s preemptively strike. Let’s
make
You’re right. You know what? Nick Sabin’s making 10 million. Urban Meyer’s
making 10, 11 million. These guys, these
schools are making ridiculous amounts of money. And guess what? It’s
intermediate. And so, and guess who
they’re making it off of? All those kids. Yes, the coach, but the kids are
the product, right? Absolutely. Somehow,
how is everyone getting rich, but Jimmy got kicked out for getting a free
pair of socks and a slice of pizza? It made
no sense, right? Or a coach takes him out to a lunch cuz he had some
tragedy in his family. Like,
there’s ridiculous stories. It made no sense. So, I’m like, preemptively
strike. Get ahead of this.
Like, just say yes, everyone’s going to be paid, but everyone’s going to be
paid the same and everyone’s going to get 25 grand. And I don’t think there
would
have been any lawsuits. Well, that’s because you go from 0 to 25 grand.
That’s like winning the lottery, right?
as a kid if you if you and me would have made 25 grand a semester and have
a scholarship. I mean it would
have been phenomenal. It would have been phenomenal. And guess what? It
would have been phenomenal. Five, six years whenever they started this
craziness.
Well, right. But so what happened is they let it run the distance and then
they said, “You know what? We’re going to go from all these rules
to no rules. No rules. Zero. That’s a real problem as we all know because
human beings don’t
do good without rules. We need structure. We need we need some direction or
it goes
south quickly, right? And so I still think it can be salvaged. I think
the
reality is like look, I I know the reason you had me on this program is
because you’ve never had a minority
owner in an NFL franchise. Well, I my friend own part of an NFL franchise.
I know. I know, guys.
You do currently. I have five shares with the Green Bay Packers. Oh, yeah.
Well, it’s big.
That’s amazing. It is. So, I’ve been to a couple owners meetings. I’ve
voted on some things. Who did you vote? Did you vote on it?
Did you vote on like I just raised my hand. You vote on What do you vote
on? Like the Are we going to do foot long hot
dogs this year or are we going to do garlic fries? Cougar tails.
Okay. So, but I’m being serious. My point is, if you know anything about
Green Bay.
Yes. It’s awesome. We just had the draft there last night. We’re going to
have the draft there again tonight. Right. It’s in a tiny little town.
Yeah. Tiny. In the middle of Wisconsin. I have a dear friend who’s a in uh
not
an emergency room doctor. what he’s he’s an anesthesiologist. Anyway, he’s
a doctor in Green Bay. That’s where he
landed after medical schooling and he’s been there for 20 years. He’s stay
great. It’s an unbelievable community. But why can the Green Bay
Packers compete with the Dallas Cowboys and the New York Giants? Because
they decided a long time ago
that everyone needs everyone. And if we want to have parody and by the way,
you right, if you want
some great books to read, I read the when I was in law school, I took a
sports law class my third year and we
had really interesting people come talk to us about the legal business side
of sports and and part of the requirements
for the class were to read books. um about that general genre, right?
And
there was a whole list and you could submit. So I I read The League, which
was the book about forming the NFL,
right? And any given Sunday was not a marketing slogan, right? It was
part of the thesis of we want to create a league where on any given Sunday,
any
team could compete with another team and the chances of winning or losing
are are hopefully going to be equal, right? So
any given Sunday, right? And so why do they It’s not a pingpong ball
with the gosh dang draft, right? The last team picks first. Yeah. Right.
How is the how is the schedule made? It’s based on pound your success the
year before,
right? Everything is to made to create parody, right? So on any given
Sunday, any team can compete with anyone else.
And there were some real real um leaders and people that had foresight
that were founders of that league. Right. First it was the NFC. Well, it
was the it was the NFL.
Mhm. And then the AFC started to kind of compete and they realized, well,
you know, there
was a process there, but they figured it out. Let’s come together and we
know there’s strength in numbers. And then
when they did that, because there was a lot of jockeying going on with
different leadership and and different rights just
like there is now between the SEC and the Big 10, right? And the AFC and
the
NFC were competing for dollars. And they finally said, “Look, if we
join group, if we join together and we try to make
the pie as big as possible, ultimately your pie is going to be bigger than
what
we’re negotiating over here. let’s your piece of that pie is going to be
bigger than what we’re going to negotiate as the whole pie. And so they said,
you
know what, let’s do that. And in order to do that, some of you guys are
going to early on take less money than you
could make as an independent or basically as a as not an equal to other
franchises that are going to be born or not as old or not in the the same
geoloccation that you are. And they
said, “Okay,