Hope on the Other Side: Building Community for Those Society Forgot

Tell me about your general faith in people. Is that one of your
signature traits? Are you faithful? We are faith friendly for sure. Yes. Um
do you have faith in the human race? We have faith in humanity. We have when
you talk about individuals who have been on the street um we call it the soft
bigotry of low expectations. That’s good. When you think about that, people
are not just a problem. You know, you’re driving on the street, you see
someone holding a sign. What’s going through your mind there? Are you asking
me? Yeah. Typically, what’s going through my mind is how on earth did that
person end up in that circumstance? So, there’s a story behind each one of
those individuals. layers of trauma, the intersection of homelessness versus
childhood upbringing versus ch adverse childhood experiences versus domestic
violence, you name it. The list goes on and on and on and on. But for the
most people, they say that person is is a problem. You have to look at it
from a different perspective and a different lens saying how do we find how
do we work on whole person change for that individual? First of all, are they
do they take a choice and are they willing to do that? That’s the first thing
like you’ve for those in the other side village, they have to hit rock
bottom. Rock bottom where they figure out I can’t live like this anymore.
I’ve got to do something different. I don’t want to get you off track, but I
want to ask you this question. I’ve heard this before. I’ve said it before.
You can’t save someone who isn’t willing to save themselves. Is that true?
Yes, 100%. Welcome to the Know Your Ship podcast presented by E-Hub. I’m your
host, Frank Dolce. Well, this is Preston Cochran. Is it fair? Is it right to
call you the CEO? That’s my title. That’s the title they gave me. The CEO of
the Other Side Village. Is it the Other Side Village and the Other Side
Academy or you’re the CEO of The Other Side Village? So, same nonprofit
organization, two different populations. The Other Side Academy, which is led
by Dave D. Roer, executive director, the Other Side Village. So, we split
that up. The Other Side Academy focuses on those individuals who have
long-term incarceration. There’s substance abuse. There’s episodes of
homelessness in that, too. But the Village focuses on individuals who’ve been
chronically homeless that have a accompanying disability. Could be substance
use, could be mental health. Gotcha. and and there’s several other entities
within the other side group. One of our approaches to the way that we are
funded is uh we want to be self- sustaining. All of our programs are free.
There’s no cost. We don’t bill Medicaid. We don’t bill insurance. We don’t
get a a check from this the government every year. We run social enterprise
businesses. Some of those include on the academy side, the other side movers,
the other side builders, the other side thrift boutiques. M so people the
other side movers is the number one rated moving company in Utah. Yeah. So a
lot of people are familiar with that. Absolutely. Our students work in those
environments. It’s a training ground for them. Our average student in the
academy has been incarcerated 26 times. Couldn’t pass a background check to
work at most fast food restaurants. Right. So here they’re learning. If
you’re in the construction, you’re getting your general contractors. You’re
learning all these skills. And we’ve got employers lined up saying we want
more of your students. your graduates once they graduate. Yeah. The village
we have the other side donuts which isn’t a social enterprise. Award-winning
gourmet donuts. We’ve got teams that wake up. They decorate donuts. We’ve got
those that work in the doughnut shop. And then another ventures the other
side foods which we’re just getting launched. Just starting on that one.
Okay. Well, I I don’t typically have notes. Frank sent me this long list of
questions. I don’t typically have notes. I send this to all of our podcast
guests and I say this is an outline. These are things we may or may not talk
about. This is the first time that anyone’s come back and has actually taken
notes. I did my homework on on the notes that I sent. And so I don’t want to
disrespect No, it was an it was a good exercise what you’ve done here. I
because I just use this as my general outline and then and then I just start
asking questions. But but now I’m I’m freeow free flow because we are for me
it was a great time to just self-reflect on questions that I really hadn’t
ever asked myself. Well, I’m glad that occurred and I think I I really want
to ask you this question. This will be the theme of our like when did you
figure out that you wanted to be involved in helping to save humanity? Yeah.
Okay. So, just think about that. That’s where we’re going with this. Okay.
But first, let’s just do some of these. I mean, this is great. If I say some
ice breakers. Yeah. If I say break dancing, what did you say? If you say
break dancing, this is one of the things he wrote down. Break dancing. It was
the question was what is something that maybe nobody knows about you? And
when I was young, I was like a legit break dancer. I mean to the point where
I was at October like I was at October Fest snowbird doing break dancing on
stage with my Nike. What are you talking out about? I can still spin on my
back. I can still do the worm and head spin I might, you know, shy away from.
But I I love that. I love that insight about you. Okay. Uh, we we typically
hit this later, but I’m I like this one. What is the best advice you’ve ever
received or given? Do you remember how you answered this? Received or given?
Um, there’s a couple things I think I wrote down on that. Uh, God God didn’t
remove Yeah. Yeah. This is good. So, when Moses parted the Red Sea, right?
God did not remove the Red Sea, but he parted the Red Sea. And I think a lot
of times when we think about our own problems and and the environment I work
in is people are asking me just remove these problems, you know, get get rid
of this for me. But God parts the Red Sea. He doesn’t take the problem away.
He shows you a way through it. Yeah. And so I kind of like that analogy.
Yeah. Do you feel like you put yourself in that position? Like you’re you’re
there. You’re not there to remove a problem. You’re there to help create a
pathway. Absolutely. We’re here to to show them how they can overcome
whatever it is they’re dealing with. Right. Yeah. If you’re dealing with
drugs, if you’re dealing with um human trafficking, if you’re dealing with
trauma from a relationship, could be domestic violence, whatever you’re
trying to get away from, it’s not going to leave you. But your past does not
define you either. So, we always make sure people aren’t just living in the
past. You got to move forward. How much of the homeless problem is just that
it’s just cyclical? like you don’t know where to start to get out of it. You
don’t know the path to start walking down. The visual I like is it’s like a
roundabout. When you’re in your car and you’re going around about, okay,
which road do I take? There’s so many intersections. There’s so many roads
leading into homelessness and then there’s episode episodic homelessness.
There’s situational homelessness. There’s chronic homelessness. We focus on
chronic homelessness. So for that, what we found is when we ask people, what
do you think the number one reason or cause of homelessness is? You know,
it’s mental health, it’s poverty, it’s housing, it’s this, it’s this. Yeah.
It’s actually the catastrophic loss of family is the number one. What does
that mean? The catastrophic loss of family. What does that mean? You have no
social network. You’ve burned all your bridges. You have no one that you that
you have a trusted relationship with. And so, you’re almost just isolated on
your own on your own little island. Gotcha. Okay. So, and is the loss of
family that could be related to lots of different things like abusive drug
use? Yes. illness in it could be I had an operation or my my my friend had an
operation. He had pain pills and I was taking those pain pills and I was
stealing them from everywhere and next thing you know that opioid addiction
led to heroin addiction which led to fentanyl which led and so that just
escalates escalates escalates and it’s not just individuals who were brought
up in poverty. You know, we have individuals who were very successful, had
very successful careers and and just since certain choices led them down the
wrong path. Gotcha. Let’s keep going down that track and I’m going to follow
along with this because there’s really good stuff on here. But let’s let’s
I’m surprised you can read it. Let’s my scribble. It’s not easy. No. I mean,
I’m working I’m working hard over here. Short hand. I mean, break dancing.
That one was easy. Skateboarding. Did you play the drums? I still play the
drums. Yeah. What do you mean you still play play the drums? Like are you in
a band? Do you have a uh not at the moment I I would love to be in a band
looking for some bandmates, but uh grew up playing in a band since sixth
grade. Yeah, love to play the drums. Thought that one of the questions, what
do you want to be when you grow up? And I thought, well, I was probably going
to be a drummer in some sort of Metallica band or something like that. Well,
I was I I’m going to ask you that at some point. If there was that question
is on here. If there’s any other thing that you could do outside of what
you’re doing currently, what would that be? You can think it. You can think
about that. Well, I know exactly what if I was not doing what I’m doing
today, you know, if I could I say so I would say a rancher. I’d love to be a
rancher. Oh, like own a ranch, work on a ranch. Yeah, I think that would be
great. Or when I was young, I thought I wanted to be a professional baseball
player and love baseball. So, I think being a GM would be kind of a fun job.
Who were your heroes growing up? I mean, did did you have some role models?
Yeah. Um, not to sound cliche, but yeah. I mean, my father was a role model.
My grandpas were role models. Yeah. Uh my greatgrandfather in southern Utah
was a farmer. So spent some time, you know, working on the farm. Yeah. In the
summers, which was which was awesome. Yeah. Hard work. Yeah. And um you know,
other role models I would say, you know, like Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, Abraham
Lincoln, and Martin Luther King, you know, role models for me. That’s another
question that came up that comes up is who is your favorite historical figure
and why? You want me to answer that now? Do you want to? It’s up to This is
your show. I’m just the guy. I’m just here. I’m trying. Yeah. I’m just a
facilitator. That’s it. A historical figure. And why? I mean, gosh, Mellin
comes to mind. Probably more modern would be I would say like George
Washington or Martin Luther King. Probably the the two stick out. Yeah. Well,
I think it’s really interesting these people that you’re talking about. These
are aspirational leaders. like all of the people that you mentioned would fit
somewhere in the top, you know, 99th percentile of everything that we might
aspire to be in our lives. I’m curious how that has translated into what
you’re doing currently. Is this something like you as you were growing up and
a kid running around, did you find yourself having these sorts of thoughts?
Was there an experience that you had growing up where that led you down this
particular path? Because this isn’t I mean prior to this, what were you doing
prior to the to the village? The village. Yeah. Uh I ran programs for Valley
Behavioral Health. Yeah. You know, and then I was working for Shelter the
Homeless before that and then working in uh legal services and financial
services. Yeah. For a long time. Yeah. You have all this this whole career.
what I I’m just curious like what what led you down that I think for me I
just have this natural curiosity for a lot of different things and so
everything I’ve done in my career I feel like has led me to my role now in
the village because there’s so many moving parts and pieces and and
everything I’ve done up to this point I I can be able to say oh gosh this is
why this was important this is why I learned this and this is how it applies
to this role today and as a kid growing up you know from about age 5 till 15
you know pretty influential years. My dad who was a professional organist.
Mhm. Okay. Worked for the state of Utah tax commission, but his hobby, his
real love was playing the organ. Played the organ his whole life. We had an
organ in our basement, you know, and and he was in a band and so the drum set
was downstairs. I would hear all these songs all night long and have a hard
time sometimes sleeping, but all these, you know, songs would go in my head.
And so when when the drum set was there, I would just start playing, right?
But um he played the organ at the Utah Jazz, the Golden Eagles hockey, the
you the Salt Lake Goals, which is now the Bees. So I pretty much spent most
of my childhood doing homework in the organ box at one of those events or you
know at the field. What a great way to grow up. It was it was awesome. Yeah,
because it was, you know, however many days of the year I would be at a a
jazz game. I mean, these are the epic years of Stockton and Malone and Eaton
and Daryl Griffith and Adrien Dantley and all those, you know, kind of early
on, you know, jazz icons. And so, I have so many fond memories of just being
in the stadium, being in the arena, you know, coming home smelling of beer
because there was a hockey fight and fans threw beer on each other. Nothing
better than a hockey, you know, and and and mom says, you know, why why do my
son smell like beer? You know, we thought it was the greatest thing ever.
Yes. You know, yeah, it is the greatest thing ever. Did you recognize at some
point this attachment, this empathy toward the human condition that led you
down this like where I think for me, my dad was a great example. There were
some young boys that we would pick up on the way to the baseball game for
almost every game, right? They lived near the near the stadium and they
worked there. They were doing concessions. So he would pick them up and we
would drive them home and they became kind of like, you know, brothers. I
would say brothers, but they were close. They were a little bit older in age,
but you know, my dad was always kind of helping just kind of that behind the
scenes and just where he could. And and I noticed that and that made an
impression on me. As you’re experiencing all of this, are you having thoughts
about Well, this is what I’d really like to do. Heavens no. When I grow up,
no. You’re just you’re just loving life. Just doing my thing. Yeah. Right.
Went to high school locally. I did. Went to Highland High School. Attended
the University of Utah. Graduated from there. Were you one of the rugby stars
at Highland? Um I was not. I was a hockey baseball. Everybody I talked to in
our era wants to attach themselves to Highland Rug Rugby if they ever
attended rug. Even if they just took some classes there at Highland, they
want to say, “Well, I you know, I was there’s a dynasty, right? I mean,
there’s a huge dynasty and and a lot of my really close friends played and it
just happened to be, you know, same season is is like baseball and so Yeah.
Yeah. And you’re you’re you know, you’re a Babe Ruth and Jackie Robinson guy.
Yeah. So, kind of just, you know, and I could go on the list of of people
that kind of just followed and try to get their baseball card, right? Where
did you go to what did you study in college? I studied exercise physiology
and sport science with the goal of I was thinking dental school of all
things. Yeah. And then I did a a three-month kind of semi-intership as part
of one of my classes and and nothing on dentist but I was I was kind of
bored. Mhm. I just didn’t see myself doing that. Yeah. Long term. Okay. So
after college, after college uh was working in uh a company where they were
doing working on credit building and and and then worked at a law firm
helping with bankruptcy and just different things like that, which led me to
help co-found an organization called AAA Fair Credit Foundation. And that was
a credit counseling, housing counseling agency, which I then uh ended up uh
running for about 17 years and helping people get out of debt, improve their
credit, avoid foreclosure or buy a home. So that and I still I still serve on
a board of a credit counseling organization today and um still follow that,
still involved in that. But um I had an opportunity come up to to work in the
private sector and uh for a company called American Research Bureau doing
international probate genealogy research. So for folks who die without a will
um we find who those rightful heirs of those estates are. Gotcha. And um you
know it’s a very kind of a cottage industry. So, not a lot of organizations
doing it, but um connecting individuals who otherwise would not know that
they were entitled to an inheritance. Pretty fascinating stuff. Yeah. Right.
To just get a letter or a phone call and say, “Hey, Frank, you know,
your your great uncle Jack died and you’re entitled to a percent of his
estate.” You would probably think, “Yeah, right.” Yeah. So,
where what’s the genesis of that organization? Obviously, somebody like me
who had an Uncle Jack and but never knew that I had been named or or had some
Yeah, by law you were entitled to to something from the estate. Uh somebody
was like, “Well, this is a real problem.” Yeah. You’ve got to find
by law you’ve got to find who the rightful heirs of those of the estates are
and so they can essentially distribute it distribute the funds accordingly.
And so it takes a while, but we would locate people all over the world, you
know, doing those genealogy family trees and and records and things like
that. So it was from a legal side working with a lot of the the attorneys and
those who were working in that, you know, it gave me a good sense, but I was
still missing kind of that day-to-day feel-good nonprofit, you know, even
though it was was doing it. And that and so that led me to shelter the homeless
which at the time in 2017 which the state’s going through this whole change
of how we’re you know running homeless shelters and mh there was operation
Rio Grand which was kind of like let’s figure this out. Let’s you know find
out who the troublemakers are downtown and let’s just completely overhaul the
whole system. And my job at the time is as shelter the homeless director was
to build three new homeless resource centers. So, we’re going to close down
the downtown largest homeless shelter. It’s been around for ever. And we’re
going to build three new shelters in different locations of the city. And
then we’re going to put the men here, the women here, and then the men and
women at this one. That completely shook things up, right? Because then you
have multiple operators. You have people who are trying to figure out how the
system goes and where to go and and neighborhoods who may be upset from the
nimism of not in my backyard. you’re not going to build this and having to go
to city councils and and just, you know, educate the public on on what we’re
doing. That was a that was challenging. Yeah, absolutely. Let me go back to
your desire to get back into a charitable organization. That was fair credit,
correct? Fair Credit was the first. Yeah. Yeah. That was charitable. Then you
went to a private entity and that’s when you’re doing the searching probate
research. Uhhuh. and felt kind of this yearning to get back into the more
charitable organization side. Yeah. I wasn’t like, “Oh, let’s I want to
go work on homelessness.” The fact that shelter homeless the homeless
had been around. They were looking for their their first kind of CEO. It was
it was more of an asset holding nonprofit. So, they they own the assets and
then contract out with providers to operate those facilities. And so, um,
yeah, and that was a very influential board of directors, you know, governor
and different, uh, philanthropic donors and then raising money for that. So,
raising several million dollars for that, uh, for that project. So, you’re a
super thoughtful, super uh, introspective guy, really talented, like you
could go out in the private industry and probably make a lot of money and
have a really incredible life. I’m not saying you don’t have an incredible
life. I do. But there there has to be something fulfilling about what you’re
doing. Not a day goes by where I don’t not either driving home or walking my
front door feel like I made a difference. And it’s hard to put a price tag on
that to say, “Oh gosh, I could be doing this and yeah, I could be doing
that.” But for whatever reason, it’s it’s to me it feels a lot more like
a calling and just the things that have led up to it. And um when I when I
accepted the the offer to to become the CEO of the Other Side Village, I
said, “Give me a couple days to think about this cuz you know, this is
something that’s never been done. Like we’re building this village and it’s
going to do this and we’re going to have this approach and it’s not just give
people keys to a to a house and say, “Okay, good luck.” There’s so
much more that goes behind it. We focus on what we call um whole person
change. And we take in instead of a housing first approach, we take a human
first approach. So that’s very different for a lot of people who’ve been
working that and say, “What do you mean a human first or a whole person
change?” Like, we focus on peeling the onion. What are the what are the
layers of trauma that someone’s dealing with that’s kept them on the street
for so long? How do we get them to move on beyond that? Yeah. So that when
they do get their own housing, whether it be in the village or somewhere
else, they can maintain that. Yeah. But they But you know what I’m talking
about. Like they can they have their dignity back. Absolutely. Right. Yeah. I
think that’s an enormous Well, you can tell me that’s an enormous part of the
problem. You’ve mentioned this a couple times and so I want to dig into it a
little bit. Things that led you down this path or experiences that you had
that put you into this position or experience you had that benefit you now in
your current position. Are those things that you can identify and that you
can talk about? Sure. So like financial literacy is a big thing, money
management, budgeting, credit, all those things that pertain to everybody,
especially those who are on the street. Our average neighbor, as we call
them, we don’t call them a client or program participant, call them a
neighbor when they move on to the village, we call them a villager. So our
neighbors uh on average make about $300 a month coming in. And that’s usually
just either a benefit or something that they’ve they’re attached to. And so
that fundamental financial literacy, you know, how do we do a basic budget or
we need to go open a bank account, need to get your debit card. So those kind
of basic things of life that pertains to it or that that you did like those
are done. You’ve done that. Yeah. I mean, put check that off the list. You’ve
built an organization around that that piece. Then there’s family
reunification. Okay. You’ve lost all your family, but when’s the last time
you talked to them? Well, you know, two years ago. Um, in fact, I was having
we were having a meeting this morning and uh one of our neighbors said,
“I finally got up the guts to call this person that I haven’t talked to
in years and it was long overdue.” But it’s that reunification part. And
sometimes it might just be, well, they say, “I have no family.” You
know, you do a little bit of genealogy here and there. You find, well, you
know, actually you do. You got a sister here, you got a brother there. You
know, they might not be the same mom or dad, but you do have some some
siblings or some people that you can reach out to. And that’s your work in
Yeah. Research bureau. Yeah. And then from shelter the homeless just knowing
the homeless the whole navigating the system and and that and who are we rely
heavily on different community partnersh who those community partners are
those relationships u being able to bring those to the table because we’re
not we’re one rung in the ladder. We can’t serve everybody and our approach
isn’t for everybody. And so if we can say, you know what, we’re not the best
fit. However, you know, this service provider over here might be a better
one. So that’s really helpful. And then from the mental health, behavioral
health background and working in that at Valley Behavioral Health, being able
to know, you know, how to navigate that system, too. And so, um, it all kind
of just blends together into what you’re doing today. Yeah. Let’s talk about
the village and what it means. I I have a few questions leading up to that.
You mentioned building shelters. You built three new shelters. Got rid of the
the original I guess original. Built three new shelters. What what is your
experience with with the shelters? How successful are shelters in in
benefiting the homeless population? Yeah, it depends on who you ask. You
know, when you ask those who are receiving the services, they would say it
was either a blessing or a curse depending on their situation and who their
trusted, you know, kind of tribe is. Right? When you talk about unsheltered,
the unsheltered population, there’s a term service resistant or shelter
resistant. Uh people who just won’t go there. They may not go there for a
variet variety of reasons. One, they do a bag check. You go through there
security check. You know, you can’t bring drugs into the facility. You can’t
bring weapons, things like that. For some, that might be a detractor, and
that’s maybe a reason why they don’t go there. Or they just want to be off
the grid, right? They might be tax resistant. They don’t want to pay taxes.
They don’t want to they just want to do their own thing. They want to live in
this kind of lifestyle where it’s I don’t want anyone bothering me. I just
want to do my thing. And so and that’s what you would encounter in a shelter
situation. Hood shelters or if it gets cold, you know, during the the warmer
months, people may be more on the street or in parks and things like that and
and that it’s it’s so complex. There’s so many it’s so complex. Yeah. You
know, when people say, “Well, we got to figure this out. Well, just give
them housing. Just build more affordable housing.” You can’t build
enough housing to solve it. Okay. And so when you look at the village and our
approach is we focus on behavior and the root causes. What are the root causes
that’s causing this person, that person, that person to be in the situation
they’re in? And we run what’s called a democratic therapeutic community. So
it’s peer-led. It’s self-governed in terms of those that are in the
community. You know, if we’re part of the community, we’re helping each
other. And we have coaches. Our coaches all have lived experience. So they’ve
all been homeless. They’ve all overcome major challenges in life and now
they’re the ones that are helping walk beside the individuals and saying,
“You know what? Here’s this is how I did it. I think you could this
could apply to you. This could help you.” And rather than just focusing
on providing just shelter, a roof over your head. Mhm. You know, housing is
not going to solve homelessness, but it’s the connection. It’s the the
purpose. It’s giving people a sense of belonging and dignity that is. Gotcha.
And the housing is is just a part it’s a tool. It’s it’s supplemental. It’s
part of it. Yes, they do need housing, but you can’t just give someone a home
or apartment and expect them to thrive. They’re going to lose it. That’s
that’s what happens. Well, and this is the at least part of the concept in
the design behind the village, correct? Is is solving for some of those
problems. Is there a challenge in you talked about people being resistant? Is
there a challenge in individuals who just or or is there a segment of the
population that just doesn’t want help, won’t accept help and and that’s the
circumstance? Yeah. I mean, whether you’re law enforcement or you’re a
business owner, it affects everyone. Homeowners, it affects everyone and in
the capital city and you’ve got homelessness in every major city of across
the US. And so, we’re all dealing with this. We’re all looking for what’s
what’s the silver bullet? How do we solve this? Um, we’ve traveled all over.
We’ve looked at different approaches. We’ve looked at different modalities.
And what we’ve learned is that it’s the community and connection. You have to
have that piece first before you can, you know, say, “Hey, look, just
coming off the street, they got to trust you, right? So, the trust factor is
huge.” But once people come in and they feel it’s just non it’s
non-judgmental and and they get this sense of I can finally breathe. you
know, this morning in our morning meeting, uh, we’ve got a guy who’s been
with us about a week and we do a daily check-in and so we all go around and
check in and he said, “I finally slept for the first time in like four
years where I just wasn’t having nightmares and these like I slept so
well.” And I’m like, “Okay, that’s it.” You know, he’s he’s on
the right track. And then you get some that come in and it’s so overwhelming
to them because there’s so much social interaction and they’re used to
isolating and the communication is is very constant and it might be just oh
you know I’m drinking from a fire hose it’s too much and so you kind of have
to really balance that and and the co our coaches do such an amazing job with
them to know you know when to push when to pull. Is it true that community
connection is a top factor in mental health? For sure. I mean, even the
unsheltered population, that’s their community, right? That’s their family.
That’s their their trust. There’s still a connection. There’s still a
connection. So, you we we’ve we’ve pulled some off the street who have been
in those encampments and their peers are saying, “No, no, no. You can’t
go. Why would you leave us?” But they want to leave that lifestyle. They
want to leave that u maybe addiction or drug abuse lifestyle behind them.
They’re they’re they’re wanting something different. It’s This may be silly.
You can you can tell me if it is, but it’s very much like Shaw Shank
Redemption. Did you see that movie? Love that movie. When the old guy is
released and he goes to his own apartment and he sees everyone’s initials on
the wall. Yeah. And where he he lost his community. Lost his. He’s sitting
there in his own apartment. It’s a, you know, it’s going to be probably a
group home that and he sees all the other people’s initials on the wall like
who have been here before and ultimately his own demise. He just can’t take
it, right? Mhm. Yeah. So, so that’s really amazing. What’s really cool, too,
is the Other Side Academy, that therapeutic community, so it’s it’s much more
authoritarian than it is from a village. It’s less democratic. But they’ve
taken that same philosophy in our in the prison here in Salt Lake because
it’s so effective, right? When you look at the outcomes of the academy,
someone stays 2 and a half years, they can stay longer if they want. There’s
no hard line on like you’ve got to get out, your insurance has run up or you
know your mom and dad paid for it. Like there’s no there’s none of that
pressure. And so what happens is the outcomes when you what we look at what
we call DCE, drug free, crime free, and employed. So, if you stay 2 and 1/2
years, you finish the academy, the percentage of of you being able to
maintain a drug-free lifestyle, crime free lifestyle, and employment are all
over 85%. You line that up with any 30, 60, 90-day treatment program, come
on. Like, you there’s no comparison. There’s no comparison. And essentially,
almost every student in the academy has been through every program. And so,
there’s no accountability. And in the academy, it’s 200% accountability. I’m
accountable for me, but I’m also accountable for you. And if I see something
that you’re doing and I don’t speak up, I’m just as guilty as you are. Right.
Yeah. Well, it’s an amazing story. Okay. So, let’s talk let’s talk more about
the concept and the design of the village and what you’re trying to
accomplish there and what are the tools that you’re using to to help? Yeah,
the design is so it’s 40 acre property. It’ll consist of over 400 what we
call cottage style homes. Mhm. People refer to them as tiny homes, but
they’re